This is a transcript of SYS 476 – From The Cheers TV Set To Filmmaker With Mark Burman .
Welcome to Episode 476 of the Selling Your Screenplay Podcast. I’m Ashley Scott Meyers, screenwriter and blogger but sellingyourscreenplay.com. Today I am interviewing writer director producer Mark Burman who just did a cool action thriller called ambush starring Jonathan Rhys Meyers and Aaron Eckert. We talked through his career he started by just being an onset PA and worked his way up to producing and now is writing and directing as well. So, stay tuned for that interview. SYS is a six-figure screenplay contest is open for submissions just go to www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/contest. Our early bird deadline is March 31st. So, if your script is ready, definitely submit now to save some money. We’re looking for low budget shorts and features we’re defining low budget as less than six figures. In other words, a screenplay that could be produced for less than 1 million US dollars. Got lots of industry judges reading the scripts in the later rounds, we’re giving away 1000s in cash and prizes. We have a short film script category 30 pages or less. So. if you have a low budget short script, by all means, please submit that as well. I do have a number of industry judges that are specifically looking for short scripts. If you’d like to enter or learn more about the contest or check out all of our industry judges, just go to sellingyourscreenplay.com/contest. If you find this episode valuable, please help me out by giving me a review in iTunes or leaving a comment on YouTube or retweeting the podcast on Twitter or liking or sharing it on Facebook. These social media shares really do help spread word about the podcast so they’re very much appreciated. Any websites or links that I mentioned in the podcast can be found on my blog in the show notes. I also publish a transcript with every episode in case you’d rather read the show or look at something later on. You can find all the podcast show notes at www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/podcast, and then just look for episode number 476. If you want my free guide How to Sell screenplay in five weeks, you can pick that up by going to sellingyourscreenplay.com/guide. It’s completely free. You just put in your email address and I’ll send you a new lesson once per week for five weeks. Along with a bunch of bonus lessons. I teach the whole process of how to sell your screenplay in that guide. I’ll teach you how to write a professional logline and query letter and how to find agents, managers and producers who are looking for material really is everything you need to know to sell your screenplay just go to sellingyourscreenplay.com/guide.
So now let’s get into the main segment. Today I’m interviewing writer, director, producer Mark Burman. Here is the interview.
Ashley
Welcome Mark to the Selling Your Screenplay Podcast. I really appreciate you coming on the show with me today.
Mark Burman
Thank you for having me.
Ashley
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. So, to start out, maybe you can just give us a quick overview of your career. How did you kind of get your start in the business and kind of get to the point now where you wrote in direct Ambush?
Mark Burman
I was very fortunate to give you just encapsulation that my mom took me on my first set when I was five years old at the CBS Studios in West LA. I saw this it was like when Bugsy Siegel first comes on and Bugsy and there was all these lights and it was Benjamin Franklin. It seemed like 1000 yards down on a soundstage. And from that moment on, I was hooked. I was very fortunate that I grew up around the business in LA. So, I’d neighbors. My neighbor was a liaison between the sets and the lab and he would take me to all the sets TV sets in the 70s like Laverne and Shirley and Happy Days and Barnaby Jones and most wanted, and I was just learning. And then when I was a teenager, I got a job with Norman Lear as his assistant, which then led me to work as a production assistant on the first season of Cheers. And my experience from that is that I got to sit behind Andy Ackerman and I wasn’t really doing a great PA job. It was more trying to you know, learn how to and he taught me he edited Cheers, and then he ended up directing the majority of the Seinfeld episodes. And so that’s why I learned the notes where I really learned cinema was being on a set, and everyone’s film school and before the age of VHS and DVDs, I would go to all the art repertoire theaters around town and just watch a week of Ozu, a week of Hitchcock. You know and then obviously when VHS came, I just gobbled everyone I could and then with DVDs came in obviously by that time you know it was more season and then I just started making films when I was 28.
Ashley
So now as I just love to get your just take things obviously have changed over the last couple of decades but it’s someone that’s trying to break into the business today and get those PA jobs and I’m sure now you’re a producer so people are coming to you with give us some just quick tips. How should people approach; people that are fresh out of college, they want to get into the business they want to get those PA jobs just give us some tips on that how do they approach a producer like yourself who has had experience?
Mark Burman
Sure. I can just go on a sidebar to that question for a second. My biggest advice because I hear it you know there’s people say oh, I’m doing a short and to make shorts are great. But go make it go make a feature for 2000 bucks and they say how to do that. I said you’ll figure it out because costs of filmmaking are so inexpensive now, you know what I mean? You’re going to have to bootstrap it up and use bubblegum and paper clips and whatever. But do that because then you’ve got a feature to show for and you can make all the mistakes you want on the first one. And you don’t have to do it on a $5 million film type of thing. You know, with Pas, how I did it. I remember that Ron Howard was first starting as director, he would answer the phone I just called, I literally called probably like 85 companies, till I got the gig. Like beat up to Ivy Leaguers at Norman Lear’s company, I just You got to go in there and pitch to yourself, and you have to work 150%, you’re going to work 20 hours a day and learn everything you can, because there’s going to be times where you’re doing the most menial tasks, getting Starbucks, it’s not the right Starbucks or going dropping off someone’s dry cleaning and all this stuff. But it’s, you know, as much as you can get from the experience of absorbing what you learn on set, it may be that 1% that day, if something you see, or someone talk to, you know, I remember when the chairs had a lot of great actors that would teach me you know, things about acting. Jimmy burrows was the director who is legend in TV. I mean, it was a three camera film show. I mean, you know, excuse me four camera film show, which was not done at the time. And, you know, cheers almost got canceled, but firstly, we were in second to last place. So, you really got to see a show that nobody knew about. Blow up and just see the inner workings of it. But get on to anything, get onto a student film. You know, there’s tons of USC and UCLA filmmakers, or NSMC, or wherever you are located. I guarantee you they need someone to help on a set. So if you have to learn on a $2,000 film with someone else, learn it, learn it, learn it and keep doing it. Keep doing it and go make a film. That’s the best way.
Ashley
Yes, that’s great advice. I hope people really listen to that. So, let’s dig into your latest film Ambush. Starring Jonathan Rhys Meyers and Aaron Eckhart. Maybe just start out and give us a quick pitch or logline. What is this film all about?
Mark Burman
It’s basically, it takes place in 1965, in Vietnam, with the first wave of soldiers out in an outpost in the jungle, near the Cambodian border. And they’re just waiting there. They’re basically Seabees, which are engineers, then they built this base. Then they’re tasked there’s basically the bases overrun. And this is before, the American forces really knew there was that the VCs were tunneling all over the country, and even underneath American bases. And what happens is a top-secret binder gets stolen, which is really the MacGuffin of the movie. And they have to retrieve it. And they basically were the American forces dominant on top, they have to go underground into the tunnel system of the VC, the Vietcong, and the NVA. And retrieve this binder and down below, they have no idea what they’re doing. So, it goes from a combat film into a Hitchcockian thriller.
Ashley
And where did this idea come from? What was sort of the genesis of this story?
Mark Burman
It’s really two part is that I started this new company, approximately Dark Mark Productions five years ago, and I said, I’m only going to make one type of film. And that’s dramatic action, dramatic action for the films that I grew up with, I was very lucky to grow up, you know, going from my childhood into my teens in the 70s. So, the films that really influenced me were French Connection, deliverance, Papillon, Wild Bunch, Midnight Express. And then, you know, going back to even the predecessor, you know, the directors before that, like Howard Hawks, John Ford. And so, I that’s the type of films we’re making where the good guy or the anti-hero at the end, maybe loses maybe even dies. And the students aren’t making those. It’s not a big enough breath for them. And I said, I’m going to, that’s what I want to do as my business because it’s a film that really influenced me. And then taking that I really have a love for historical history and obviously, combat in history. I combine those tools. And I saw, there’s really only been really one movie, there was a low budget pour from but with a bowl about the tunnel rats. And I said; Well, I think we can do better than that. And so, I said, let’s put these guys a little bit before they really knew about there was the tunnel rats. And these are really, really like the first wave of military that explored the tunnels and then the adventures they go through to retrieve the binder.
Ashley
Yeah, yeah. So now I just like to bounce this off you as a producer going into this and understanding production. Like the typical thing we always hear as screenwriters is that period pieces are probably not what screenwriter should be watching just a little more, a little bigger budget little things, and especially with a low budget, sort of indie films like this. How does that process do I mean, it sounds like you just have a love and a passion for history and the war films and these types of films. So obviously that plays into it. But with your producer cap on, what do you say to that sort of conventional wisdom to screenwriters don’t write period pieces.
Mark Burman
Well, you know, you obviously have to put food on the table, and a lot of writers go with what is on the table, you know, which today is really, you know, franchises, it’s fantasy, it’s comic book, etc. And, you know, there’s not a lot of gigs for that. And I my opinion, because I produce what I want to make. And so, whether that’s the correct way to do it or not, that’s where you know, I don’t I personally, I’m not suited to make a Marvel movie, it’s not my circle of competence. And that’s where I go to. And I don’t always believe in this model that you write what you know, you can write about whatever you want. And I don’t want to waste anybody’s time. But you can also you can write something that maybe a more modern-day history, as you see on TV a lot. You have the Monica Lewinsky trials, you have Watergate. I do think there is a book of business for because I’ve heard from agents like Oh, history’s because there’s no franchise from it. You can’t do a second season, blah, blah, blah. I disagree. I think there’s a there’s a big book of business for it. A bigger book of business, as was said, I should say.
Ashley
Yeah, yeah. I mean, you made an excellent point, which again, I think people should really listen to is that, you know, the studios aren’t making these types of films anymore. So even though they may not be four quadrant films, there still is a potentially a market for them, because nobody…
Mark Burman
It’s a lot in TV too. So, if you want to study the TV format to screenwriting, which I’m sure you talk about a lot.
Ashley
Yeah, yeah. Perfect. So, let’s talk about the actual writing process. You have co writers on this. Johnny Lozano and Michael McClung. Maybe you can just describe…
Mark Burman
There is one other name named Dylan Slack.
Ashley
Okay. Perfect, perfect.
Mark Burman
What happens is I usually partner up on scripts, because I’m covering a lot of territory, you know, we’re a small shop, so I got to produce direct, right? I got to find the finance team head, the legal team head, the production team. So, what I usually do is I collaborate with writers. You know, Michael McClung, and I were the initial riders on it, Michael did some great drafts, Johnny and Dylan came in and did polishes we probably had, I think there was 18 drafts on this, we really, really honed it down. Really, really, you know, this wasn’t a second or third draft type project.
Ashley
Yeah. And so, talk about your writing process a little bit. What is your writing process look like? Do you spend a lot of times with no cards outlining and then a little bit of time and final draft cranking out script pages? How does that work for you?
Mark Burman
I’m old school, as you get I write on a pad, legal pad, I just feel that when you have that pen, and you put it to pad, I just get that sink into it. What I do is I watch a lot I probably before I start writing, I watch anywhere from 70 to 80 features, and they could be a 1920 silent film, or it could be a film that just came out last week. And I can it helps stimulate my ideas, usually for that subject matter. So, I watch a lot of TCM, you know, a lot of criterion channels that have to do with it. I didn’t just watch Vietnam war films, I watched old war films, I’ve maybe watched a lot of Hitchcock because this has a lot of themes of Hitchcock’s and the tunnels to stylization, the tension, etcetera, that will just give me those ideas, not just for directing, but you know, for writing the basis of the story. And then I read a lot too, I research.
Ashley
Yeah, what is your development process look like? So, you cranked up this first draft? Did you go out notes? Do you have other writer friends, other producer friends? How do you get development? And how do you handle notes?
Mark Burman
It depends on what the note is, you know, type of thing. You know, sometimes you get notes from a, we pre sell our films. So really, we have a great sales agent on this film, Highland film group that gave me no note. So, another project that we’re wanting to do, they’ve given me a ton of notes. Really, I go to I know, writers who’ve been very successful in this business, and I think are creative also. And I basically ask them to read it and give me their honest, I’d rather hear bad news and I don’t need the compliments. You know what I mean? It’s because that I’m going to just have, you know, a crappy script, I really want to hear like, and they’ll give you the positive notes and they’ll say you got a hole here, you got a hole here, your character maybe should be doing this. What about this through line from you know, from this story to me, because when you look at this, this really is a first second and third act type project. I have projects that have absolutely none of that throughout all the words, you know, which have more of that Goodfellas type of storyline, which really, I don’t know if you’d call it a story in a sense it’s more of a tale.
Ashley
I’m curious. Okay, so once you had your script you had a draft done that you were happy with? What are those next steps and you just said you’re the one that’s basically the head of raising financing just in a nutshell how do you go about raising finance with this is a companies you’ve done business with before you have these prior relationships?
Mark Burman
I went to a great sales company that was referred to me by one of the producers David under we basically said we have Aaron Eckhart attached and they, we make a deal with Aaron and then Jonathan Rhys Meyers as your essential elements. And then they go out to their buyers. And they start doing the pre selling process where they go to tell you that, for example, we had 21 sales from the domestic buyer, which was Sivan to Spain, France, Africa, you know, all the different territories around the world, and Germany, and basically, they licensed the film, you take all that, plus some equity from investors, you get a tax incentive where we filmed in Colombia, you can take that whole kit and caboodle. You take it to a financier, and then they finance based on your collateral.
Ashley
Gotcha. Now, all of this pre selling, it seems to me over in past decades, I would hear a lot more about that. Has that changed over the last couple of decades, is there less pre selling?
Mark Burman
There’s less pre selling, but you know, the what I liked about pre selling is, if you pre sell, and there was we had a lot of sales on this right away, then you know that you’ve got the right product that the marketplace wants. So, I can say, hey, I’ve got this passion project. And the market can say great, we love it, we’re buying it or they can say crickets. That doesn’t mean it’s still not a good film. It’s just not a marketable film for the market this time. I knew that with if you look at it, the numerator is this great story that takes place in this historical piece of time. And then the denominator is there’s a lot of explosions. You know, there’s cool hardware, there’s a lot of tension, you know, and people getting blown away, which people like in action films.
Ashley
So, you mentioned you had your cast, Aaron Eckert and Jonathan Rhys Meyers. So, one of the things that I always hear, again, sort of the conventional thing is, oh, they love the script. So, they signed a letter of intent. But when you really dive down there, most of the time, it’s a pay or play offer. And again, we don’t have to talk about the specifics. But how do you kind of get past that catch 22 of you know, having to make a payer play offer before you actually have money. And just exactly what you said is you knew you had a market fit, but you probably already had to promise some money to some of these actors.
Mark Burman
I usually don’t do letters of intent. I find that most agents don’t like them. They don’t want them. Because it’s only worth what the paper is. And if you aren’t a seasoned producer, and that project gets some toxicity around it, then that hurts their client. They want a project that is such is solid. And if so to get to that point, they’re going to want hold monies, which you have to raise from an investor. I have our own in the company, and we have investors that put up those monies.
Ashley
Yeah, yeah. So how can people see Ambush? What’s the release schedule going to be to like?
Mark Burman
It will be in theaters February 24. A week from tomorrow, okay. And it’ll be on 100 trains nationwide and 70 top markets, and it will be all over VOD, Amazon Prime all everywhere.
Ashley
Perfect. Perfect. And what’s the best way for people to keep up with what you’re doing Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, anything you’re comfortable sharing I’ll round that up in show notes.
Mark Burman
Instagram. Dark Market experience.
Ashley
Okay, perfect. I’ll put that in the show notes. Mark, I really appreciate you coming on the show talking to me. Great interview. Congratulations on this film.
Mark Burman
Great. I really appreciate it. Thank you.
Ashley
Thank you. We’ll talk to you later. Thanks. Bye, bye.
I just want to talk quickly about SYS Select. It’s a service for screenwriters to help them sell their screenplays and get writing assignments. The first part of the service is the SYS Select screenplay database. Screenwriters upload their screenplays, along with a logline, synopsis and other pertinent information like budget and genre, and then producers search for and hopefully find screenplays they want to produce. Dozens of producers are in the system looking for screenplays right now. There have been a number of success stories come out of the service. You can find out about all the SYS select successes by going to sellingyourscreenplay.com/success. Also, on SYS podcast episode 222. I talked with Steve Dearing, who was the first official success story to come out of the SYS select database. When you join SYS select you get access to the screenplay database along with all the other services that we’re providing to SYS select members. These services include the newsletter, this monthly newsletter goes out to a list of over 400 producers who are actively seeking writers and screenplays. Each as well as select member can pitch one screenplay in this monthly newsletter. We also provide screenwriting leads, we have partnered with one of the premier paid screenwriting leads services so I can syndicate their leads to SYS select members. There are lots of great paid leads coming in each week from our partner. Recently, we’ve been getting five to 10 high quality paid leads per week. These leads run the gamut. There are producers looking for a specific type of spec script to producers looking to hire a screenwriter to write up one of their ideas or properties. They’re looking for shorts features TV and web series pilots all types of projects. If you sign up for SYS select you’ll get these leads emailed directly to you several times per week. Also, you get access to the SYS select forum where we will help you with your logline and query letter and answer any screening Writing related questions that you might have. We also have a number of screenwriting classes that are recorded and available in the SYS select forum. These are all the classes that I’ve done over the years, so you’ll have access to those whenever you want once you join. The classes cover every part of writing your screenplay, from concept to outlining, to the first act, second act, third act, as well as other topics like writing short films, and pitching your projects in person. Once again, if this sounds like something you’d like to learn more about, please go to sellingyourscreenplayselect.com Again, that is sellingyourscreenplayselect.com. On the next episode of the podcast, I’m going to be interviewing writer director James Cullen Bressack, who was on before in Episode 446. So definitely check out that episode, if you haven’t already. Next week, he comes back on the show to talk about his latest feature film, a film called Murder Anyone, which is based on a play written by his father. It’s a very touching story about a son’s journey to see his father’s work get produced after he has passed away. And this is not the story of the script. This is actually James’s story of getting the script produced. So, it’s a really interesting story. And James is someone that, as I said, he’s been on the podcast before and most of the movies you’ve done had been really sort of genre fair, you know, action, thrillers, that kind of stuff. So, this is sort of a step in a different direction, a real passion project for him. So, it’s a really fascinating interview from James next week, so keep an eye out for that episode. That’s the show. Thank you for listening.