This is a transcript of SYS Podcast Episode 535 – The Ladybug Effect With Greg Porper.
Welcome to episode 535 of the Selling Your Screenplay podcast. I’m Ashley Scott Meyers, screenwriter and blogger of its sellingyourscreenplay.com. Today I am interviewing writer and filmmaker Greg Porper. He is on the podcast today to talk about his new feature film, Don’t Tell Larry, which he co-wrote, co-directed and produced. We dig into the writing of the script. This project started as a web series and then ultimately came this feature film that he’s now completed. So, we talked through some of that. We also dig into exactly how he raised the money for this production. So, if you have a screenplay and you want to produce it yourself, you’re definitely going to want to hear what he has to say. And I’ll give you a little hint. There’s no magic bullet. It’s just a lot of hard work, but he’s very candid about exactly what he did and what worked, which is very informative and also inspiring. So, stay tuned for that interview.
SYS’s Six Figure Screenplay contest is open for submissions. Just go to www.sellingyourscreenplay.com, contest. Our late deadline is June 30th. So, if your script is ready, definitely submit now to save some money before our final deadline. We’re looking for low budget shorts and features. I’m defining low budget as less than six figures. In other words, less than 1 million US dollars. We’ve got lots of industry judges reading scripts in the later rounds. We’re giving away thousands of dollars in cash and prizes along with a bunch of bonus prizes and exposure for the top scripts. We have a short film category, 30 pages or less. So, if you have a low budget short script by all means, consider submitting that as well. If you want to learn more about the contest or enter the contest or just see who our industry judges are, you can go to www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/contest. If you find this episode valuable, please help me out by giving me a review in iTunes or leaving a comment on YouTube or retweeting the podcast on Twitter or liking or sharing it on Facebook. These social media shares really do help spread the word about the podcast. So, they’re very much appreciated. Any websites or links that I mentioned in the podcast can be found on my blog in the show notes. I also publish a transcript with every episode in case you’d rather read the show or look at something later on. You can find all the podcast show notes at www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/podcast and then just look for episode 535. If you want my free guide, how to sell a screenplay in five weeks, you can pick that up by going to sellingyourscreenplay.com/guide. It’s completely free. You just put in your email address and I’ll send you a new lesson once per week for five weeks along with a bunch of bonus lessons. I teach the whole process of how to sell your screenplay in that guide. I’ll teach you how to write a professional logline and query letter and how to find agents, managers, and producers who are looking for material. Really is everything you need to know to sell your screenplay. Just go to sellingyourscreenplay.com/guide.
So, a quick few words about what I’ve been working on over the last month. I am continuing along in pre-production on my micro budget rom-com. Just to recap, I have my small crew assembled. We’ll be figuring out the technical stuff, the cameras, the lightings, the grip package over this next few months. So that still needs to be done, but we’re definitely getting that in place. I’ve just about got all my locations figured out. The one last location I need is actually a community theater, which you’d think would be easy in LA, but so far I haven’t been able to find a theater that will even return my phone calls or emails. I’ve only reached out to three so far, so I’ve definitely got a lot more community theaters in LA that I can hit up. But it’s odd to me that the community theater in LA, it’s certainly filled with actors who sort of understand the business, but they have no interest in an indie film shooting at their location. So, I’ve just got to keep looking for that, and eventually I hopefully will find a nice little community theater, hopefully around here or in the valley, but we’ll see. One thing I’ll definitely say, and actually Greg, who’s my guest today on this episode, he shot his movie in Texas, he talks about this briefly, but I’m definitely having a much better time finding people just by contacting them directly instead of going through some of these big location sites. I live outside of Los Angeles on the border of LA County and Ventura County. And when I approach folks outside of LA, or even specifically, I’m sort of closer to the San Fernando Valley, which if you’re not familiar with Los Angeles is sort of a, it’s a part of the city of Los Angeles, definitely part of the county of Los Angeles, but it’s sort of another part of Los Angeles that I’ve lived in since I’ve been in LA, and I live now out in Agora Hills, which is sort of right near the valley. But it’s the same thing, when you go into the valley, these people are pretty sophisticated when it comes to renting their locations. And they’re just, they’re not excited about it, and it’s just not that interesting to them. So, it just becomes much more transactional about the money and that sort of stuff. But I’m finding just even up here in Agora Hills, as I said, which is sort of closer to the Ventura County line, it’s outside of the city of LA, but it’s still in the county of LA. And then as I said, right up against the Ventura County line. But these folks seem to be enough removed from Los Angeles that they seem excited to be involved in a film. So again, I’ve got all my locations, except for the theater, so that’s good. I’m also getting the schedule, pretty well locked in as well. It looks like we’re going to be shooting from October 27th through November 15th. I’ve had a number of people who listen to this podcast reach out to me who want to help. And you know, I could use all the help I can get on this. If you’re in Los Angeles, or if you want to just take a trip to LA, I mean, if you want to be a screenwriter and you listen to this podcast and you’ve never been to LA, you know, perhaps this is a great time to just plan a trip out here. You could spend a couple of days being an extra on my film and then just explore LA and kind of get to know LA. I thought it just might be a cool way to bring the SYS community together.
Just, I’ve met so many people throughout the years running this podcast. And it just feels like this could be a great way to sort of just celebrate SYS and support SYS just by having people come out and be extras in the film. You know, film is forever. So, you know, once we shoot this film, it’ll be great. You know, we’ll be able to look back on it. And these are the folks that you’ll listen to the podcast and it’s sort of some context to the film. I’ve purposely scheduled the, I need extras. There’s two days I need a lot of extras. And then there’s a number of other days that I just need, you know, one or two, three extras here or there. But the two days I need the extras the most, big days with like some actual, you know, five, ten, eight, eight people, 15 people is November 11th and November 12th. November 11th is kind of our climactic scene at the bar. So, you know, we’ll try and get at least 10, 15 people there. I’m going to try and have a band as well. So, it’ll be a little bit of a party atmosphere. The downside, and this is not an insignificant downside. You know, in order to shoot at this bar, obviously, this guy that owns this bar is running a bar. He’s running a business. So, we’re shooting outside of his regular business hours. And I think he’s open from like 2 p.m. to 2 a.m. So, or maybe it’s, maybe he’s open till midnight, something like that, 2 p.m. to midnight or 3 p.m. to midnight, something like that. In any event, we’re going in from 1 a.m. to 1 p.m. So it is, it’s a significant ask, obviously, for people to get up at, you know, midnight or 1 a.m. and show up at a bar in Ventura. I definitely think that’s going to be a challenge. But hopefully there’s some people out here, as I said, listening to the podcast that want to come out and support this project and just be a part of it. And, you know, we get immortalized, you know, shooting this. And that’s kind of how I pitch this to the people that own these locations as well, is that, you know, we’re going to shoot this bar in Ventura. We’re going to shoot the logo and the sign, and we’re going to kind of make it a part of the movie. So, it’ll be some, you know, potential publicity for this bar owner and the other locations as well. I extend the same courtesy to them. We’ll shoot, we have a little boutique clothing store. We’re going to go into it just, it’s about a half day. And that’s right here, as I said, in the Agora Hills area. Real nice lady. And I just called her and just pitched, hey, you know, you ever consider having a film? Would you consider having someone shoot a film? And she was very nice. And I pitched her the same thing. Hey, we could shoot your sign, your logo. We could kind of incorporate it into the movie. Oh yeah, that sounds good. So again, just trying to sort of give some context, give a little bit of value back to these folks that are being very gracious in trusting me to come in and shoot a movie in their location. So as I said, if you’re interested in coming out here and being a part of this, definitely consider it. It’ll be fun. I mean, these sets, it’s a low budget set, but we’ll have some food and, you know, you’ll get to just sort of see how a movie like this exists and is produced and works. So especially if you’re trying to think about potentially maybe shooting your own film, but I’d love to have everybody. I mean, as far as, you know, extras, you know, I can guarantee you, I’m not going to get overwhelmed with people.
So anybody who wants to come out here and be a part of it is definitely more than welcome. And as I said, we’re shooting from November, October 27th, November 15th. So there’s a number of days inside that window. We’ll need extras, but the two big days we need extras are the 11th and 12th. So if you have any interest in this, definitely drop me an email. I’ll have an email list. I only do the podcast once a month. So it’s not like I’ll be able to make, you know, real time updates on the podcast. So if this sounds interesting and you’re thinking, yeah, I’ll come out and help you on the film, just drop me an email so I can kind of put you on my email list of the people involved in the film and you’ll get the real time updates on the schedule. Things change. I mean, as I said, I don’t have the theater. Theater day is actually one day that I need a good number of the extras. So that’s actually the November 12th. And then as I said, the November 11th is the climactic bar scene. I don’t think there would really be a conflict. I mean, it’s going to be dark and in the background. So, I think you could be in both scenes, even though it would be a little weird if someone really saw you clearly, like why were you at the bar and then at this theater? That’d be a little weird, but I don’t think it would really be a problem. You know, you just change clothes maybe, and we’ll put you in the background. So you could be there for both of those days or one of those days if it was convenient. The theater day won’t be in the middle of the night. My guess is that’ll be like, you know, 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. We will be there for a full 12 hours on the 12th, but as I said, it won’t necessarily be in the middle of the night. But if this sounds like something that would be interesting to you, just drop me an email and I’ll put you on my email list and kind of give you real time updates on the production. And just send an email to info@sellingyourscreenplate.com. Anyway, that’s what I’ve been working on, just getting this film prepped. And now let’s get into the main segment. Today I’m interviewing writer, director, producer, Greg Porper. Here is the interview.
Ashley
Welcome, Greg, to the Selling Your Screenplay podcast. I really appreciate you coming on the show with me today.
Greg Porper
Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.
Ashley
So, to start out maybe you can tell us a little bit about your background. Where did you grow up and how did you get interested in the entertainment business?
Greg Porper
So, I grew up in Tenafly, New Jersey, a wonderful town right outside of New York City. I knew from a young age, I just loved watching TV and I liked movies and I liked sports, watching sports and playing sports. So, I thought, probably when I was like a young teenager, when I was actually starting to think about what I want to be when I grow up, I would say like, oh, well, these are things I enjoy. Maybe that’s something I can be a part of. And I actually took the root of being a sports broadcaster. So I did a sports broadcasting camp with Ian Eagle, who is constantly on all the networks, calling the big NFL games, the big NCAA games. And I was required to go in front of a camera and like a studio audience in front of all these people in the camp, I was 14 years old. And I was so nervous, I was in front of the camera. I said, I just, I don’t feel comfortable. I love what I’m talking about. I love this idea, but I don’t belong here. I like what the guys behind the camera who are recording me are doing. And I specifically remember that week, we watched a, this is sports center recording where they used to have it where on ESPN, you would have the actual telecast and then on ESPN2 at the same time, you’d have the behind the scenes and you’re seeing the director in the director’s room and saying, camera A, camera B, switch here. I’m like, that is what I want to do. Like, I want to be the one that’s kind of orchestrating what you’re seeing on the screen. And then from there, as much as I love sports, I also love narrative storytelling. So I said, okay, I want to basically be doing this, controlling what’s happening, but in a narrative sense. And so I think that kind of really hit me like midway through high school. And then I kind of just started making short videos, learned how to utilize the family camcorder. And from there, I wanted to say like, this is what I want to do with my life. And my parents being very responsible said, we want to support you in that, but also like, what’s the practical, what’s the additional practical thing you’re going to do as like your safety net. And so I, when I went to college in Northwestern, I had a background as well as marketing, I was a marketing minor and a business institutions minor.
So, combining that with filmmaking, which I find really practical today is kind of my approach. So when I’m making stuff, it’s not just the creative elements, but then it’s the business side of things. I’m like, how to get the product out there, I got the movie out there, I got people to see it. And yeah, I’ve always just had interest in making my own projects on the side. I came out to Hollywood and I got a job as an assistant working at a reality TV production company. And I don’t want to be working in reality TV, which is something that a lot of people who work in reality TV say, but it was a stable job and it being on a desk and being an assistant for a high-level executive and being on the phone with big talent agencies constantly, it was a great just learning experience on just how the entertainment business works. And so while working in these jobs at the same time on the side, I’m trying to make projects when I can. And then slowly I was moving up at this reality TV company and it’s like that, as you get promoted, it’s like the harder it’s kind of switch because then you get pigeonholed and like, all right, you’re the reality TV guy, you do like reality TV development. And so I was pretty determined to kind of change that impression, how people see me. And so, my true bread and butter is to make like scripted comedy, that’s what I really love. So I started to make those on the side. And one of the projects I had made worst birthday ever was a project that ended up getting picked up by the CW. It was a short form web series. And that was something that at the time I was still working at this reality TV production company. And I told my boss like, hey, I have this web series. I think this is something you guys can pitch out. Like, I know you deal with reality TV, but why not try out some scripted content? And at the time, no one was really sure what to do with it. I had attached a Vine star back when Vine was a big thing. More of these people kind of had a big, the amount of power I should say, the influence they have today. But I could see that like at the time, this kid who was posting six second videos and getting hundreds of thousands of views within a day. Like, what if I put him in my little web series? And when I did that and then put it on YouTube, it’s like, I got like 60,000 views in a day and 3000 subscribers. And it was like, I was seeing the power of what these influencers could have. And I realized, okay, this is like over 10 years ago, but like clearly this was like the warning signs or not even warnings, just the signs of like the way the industry is changing today. So ultimately using that web series as a proof of concept and my boss at the time saying, yeah, let’s go pitch it out. We ended up pitching to the CW and they ended up actually buying the show as like a 10-episode digital series for CW Seed. But that helped the transition going from like working in reality to essentially like scripted. Because now I essentially went from being a development coordinator to a show runner on a short form scripted series. And then from there that kind of helped launch me to then do a lot of freelance projects for several years. these shorts with various influencers in the projects. And then from there, again, I’ve always wanted to be a showrunner and seeing the project through. So, I had a lot of experience in development, a lot of experience in production, but I also wanted to have post experience. And I also do have that background in reality and we all have to make a living. And so, a former showrunner that I had worked with at the reality company had his own series of documentaries that he was producing for Vice. And he said, do you know how to use Avid? And I said, yes, I know how to use Avid. I did not know how to use Avid, but I had three weeks to learn. And it was great, like when I had a deadline and this goes to writing or producing or whatever it is, if you have a deadline like to work against, you kind of find a way to get something done. And again, it’s actually kind of perfect.
I’m talking with you about this, considering, we met through deadline junkies, which is like the purpose of that screenwriter’s group, which I love. And so, yeah, so anyway, as a working on Avid, I was a story producer for several documentaries and what that is, essentially it’s analyzing footage that’s coming in from the field. And it’s a documentary, whether it’s about people who are suffering from various addictions or I did a project with a bunch of California firefighters, like fighting like really serious fires up and down the state. You can’t control the footage you’re getting because you’re filming something that’s really happening. And so when all that footage comes in, how do you then craft a story, whether it’s a 90-minute documentary or a six-episode hour long series? And so I found that that experience was really great to see how the story also gets shaped in the edit. And so I felt like, all right, now I’ve had these experiences of being working development, production and post. Meanwhile, on the side, I’m writing constantly wanting to make a movie. That’s ultimately like why I came out here. And so I was using these jobs to learn, but also to save up as much money as I could, knowing that in order to make a movie, you need funding and you need money. And one of the best ways to possibly get funding from other people, whether it’s people you know or people you don’t know, is if there’s some sort of funding in place, even if it’s not a lot. And so in my case, I was saving up with the intention that I would be the first dollars in to the movie that I was going to make. And my partner, John, who I worked with on this, we talked about this, how we were both going to be the ones to first put in money. And so we spent like two years writing the script at this time while I was still working these documentary jobs. And eventually there was the point where I had to take the plunge and say like, all right, I need to like be able to work full time on getting this movie off the ground in order to actually make it. And so that’s when, you know, after my last like gig ended on a show, I then went to fundraising full time. And it was kind of a long-winded answer, but I’m kind of just kind of walking through everything.
Ashley
And no, and I think that brings us up to speed and we’ll get into this new movie. Don’t tell Larry in a second, just a couple of follow-up questions on there. So, you’re living and growing up outside of New York city. Northwestern is more in the Midwest, I guess, or middle of the country. So, but why, why did you first come to LA? Was there ever any thought to try out the film scene in New York since that was just a little more local and closer and you sort of must’ve had some contacts there.
Greg Porper
Yeah, funny enough. So I had an internship with the NBA again, showing my like my like in the NBA production department, creating footage for their network, I got to make some shorts that went on NBA TV. I worked on a documentary that went on ESPN. And that was an amazing internship. I loved it. And then as it when my internship ended, and I was done college, I actually, there was a job opening there. And I applied and it was a multi route interview. And it was a final round interview. And I ultimately didn’t get it. But if I got that job, I was going to be working in Chicago, New Jersey, New York City, and me not getting that job was me saying, Okay, maybe that was a sign to go to LA, I was always reluctant at first to go to LA because it’s the way you said, Ashley, New York is where I had my contacts. It’s where I’ve worked. It’s what I was familiar with. It’s where home is my family is. But as a senior at Northwestern, we had an amazing experience where I got to fly out because I was a showrunner of a student run sitcom. And I got to fly out to LA with our professor and I got to shadow Steve Levits. And I was the very, very beginning of modern family. And there’s a contact through Northwestern that connected us to Steve Levits. And so I got to shadow him for a day on the set of modern family, seeing what life could be like in LA. And of course, it’s like the most glamorous way to see life in LA. But I was like, oh, I can make it work in LA. So then when I had again, so that a few months later, when I had that interview, I didn’t get New York that the MBA job, I said, all right, this is the sign, like, I’m I am going to take the plunge and go to LA and, you know, give it at least three months to see if I can make it work.
Ashley
So, now, so this guy comes to you and he says, do you know Avid, is he literally going to hire you to be the editor on this documentary? And did you have some experience in nonlinear editing? I mean, Avid isn’t that much different than Final Cut Pro or this, you know, so did you have some experience with editing or you went in there, he hired you professionally to be an editor and just in three weeks he took a master class in it.
Greg Porper
So, to clarify, yes. No, fortunately, I was not the primary editor. I was, as the story producer, more responsible for creating string outs and viewing the footage that’s coming and analyzing it and putting footage on timelines, but not having to do pretty extensive edits. But that being said, I did use the edit on Final Cut Pro. I did learn on iMovie, which only takes someone so far. Did do a lot of work with Final Cut Pro. So, I kind of knew some of the ins and outs, some of the tricks, some of the natural shortcuts translates, but in terms of the workaround with Avid and the workflow, especially working on a production like that when there’s so much footage, there was definitely a learning curve. And for the first two weeks, and I’ve shared this with the people I worked with, I would go around to different editors and just ask a question about something I didn’t know, but I was intentionally not going to the same person to ask all these questions because trying to hide the fact that I’m still relatively new at this. So it did take two weeks to really get comfortable with it, but again, it wasn’t extensive editing. And that was something that I got clarity before accepting the job, what the job would entail. And it was light editing, but basically it’s creating string outs and just being able to use the program. So, it wasn’t the hardest thing in the world, but at the same time, it’s like if I didn’t have that initial editing background, I don’t know if I would have been able to do it.
Ashley
So, you must still have some friends in production. I don’t want to get too off track, but I just want to hear your take. Everything we hear is that production in LA is way down. Just what’s the gist of just from your friends. You must still have friends in reality TV, working in production and stuff. Just what is your take on sort of the state of the business here in LA?
Greg Porper
From what I’ve seen that just feels quite dry and it’s everyone I know seems to be pivoting and trying to find all additional revenue streams and different ways to kind of hang in there. I’m hopeful that productions will come back, but so much of it’s getting outsourced. And the other thing that’s hitting its or rearing its head at the same time is AI. And the fact that, I don’t know whether companies admit this or not, I’m sure they’re utilizing AI in some capacity or they can eliminate a lot of the workflow through AI. I mean, there’s jobs that are fully dedicated to taking the footage that comes in and organizing it within an avid software. That’s something you could probably input into AI and it’ll do that for you in 10 minutes, not two minutes. And so, unfortunately, it’s just, there’s so many talented people out there right now that don’t have those jobs. And I see that on the post side, I see that on the production side and definitely see that on the development side as well.
Ashley
Gotcha. Okay, so let’s dig into your new film. Don’t tell Larry, maybe you can just give us a quick pitch or log line. What is sort of the log line for this film?
Greg Porper
Don’t tell Larry is about an ambitious woman named Susan, who wants to become CEO of her company Good Lakes Cruises. And in order to do so, she actually has to tell a little white lie to this weird new coworker, Larry, just a harmless little lie. She’s setting up a company party for her boss. Larry has a little bit of these weird vibes. She just doesn’t want him there. But this one little lie to not have a liar at the party just spirals wildly out of control, where ultimately it just turns into the work week from hell for her and for pretty much everyone around in the office.
Ashley
So where did this idea come from? Did you work in a corporation and there was some weird employee? But just where did this guy come from? And just where did this story idea come from?
Greg Porper
Yeah, I think I don’t view it as a bad thing, but I think I’m a very weird individual where I just have like weird ideas and weird phrases that whether I’ve said it or I’ve heard other people say and like I log it down on like a list and I’m just like I love the misfit character, the person who just says the awkward line that everyone just turns and says like, what did you just say? And then, you know, I think that’s why I love The Office so much, just because there were those characters there. I love the environment of a workplace. The character of love I was not actually based on any individual I’ve ever met, thank goodness, but it was like a combination of just like ideas and things I’ve heard people say in the past that would just inspire like just weird things. Like what like, I’m trying to think like the fact that he eats raisins with a pencil, you know, like I’ve seen people eat like I know there’s the famous thing in Seinfeld where someone’s eating like a twitch with a fork, but I just love like just what’s like a quirky thing that can stand out that’s just super weird. But to him, it’s completely normal. And so, Larry just kind of, I don’t know, I think I was just inspired by the fact of like, what’s someone who I don’t want to work with, but I would love to watch kind of just turned into this character. And, you know, the original character, because we had a web series called Don’t Tell Larry, and the original character had like anger issues. That was like what his deal was like he just had a short circuit. And in that case, I knew plenty of people who have, you know, short circuits and get angry easily. But when the actor Kyle Kennedy, who was a real-life coworker, who’s extremely talented in the groundlings, when I met him, and we were talking about it, and then we started filming that web series, and he again, with this strong improv background, he took what Larry was saying, and he ramped it up to an 11. So, the character of Larry isn’t what it is without Kyle’s without Kyle’s flair. Because he, he will just take things like one step farther than what we had in mind. Originally, Larry’s, again, just a character who just was a little angry. And now like Kyle just would add these little Larry isms that would just, you know, make you laugh out loud, or just make you a little uncomfortable. And that’s exactly what we wanted. So we kind of embraced what Kyle brought to the character.
Ashley
So, take us through just sort of that journey when you originally had this idea, you put it into a web series, was the idea to do a web series and then turn it into a feature, turn it into a TV show. But just bring us along with that journey. It started as a web series. How did you get that made? And then what was the next step after that?
Greg Porper
Of course, it started as a web series because I wanted to just make stuff and this is at the time I was still working full time at a reality TV company. This was this is actually before worst birthday ever had come out with the CW. But it was after I made the web series that I pitched to my boss at the time and I just wanted to keep making short form stuff. And so the intention originally was just to make something fun. Without really I didn’t have any intention what was going to happen with it. I didn’t realize it’s going to be something that I became so incredibly passionate about. I mean, this has been a project that’s been a part of my life for nearly 10 years. And the web series itself, we shot six short episodes over the course of two days, shot at a former boss’s office off hours. I think, you know, one night was an overnight because it was during the week. And first of all, just had so much fun making it. It was the most bare bones crew you could think of our production budget probably went to mostly to crafty so we could all eat like that. And then you know, paying crew members a little bit and cast and but that was made for under $1,000. From there, when we were, you know, we had the cut, we were showing it to people, we realized like, oh, people are like really laughing like big time. Like, it’s not just something like – Oh, haha, my friends made something that’s funny. That’s people were like, this is so good. So then we said, Oh, you know what, maybe there’s festivals for this sort of thing. And we came across the New York Television Festival, which rest in peace, I don’t think is around anymore. But that was a perfect festival dedicated to proofs of concepts web series, getting, you know, TV shows off the ground, like thinking like the model of broad city brain fart. So broad city, right? So like broad city takes that that model. And that was something that was exciting, because you’re creating a proof of concept. And from there, you know, hopefully, maybe a network or someone would pick it up. So when we made the web series, and we got into New York Television Festival, and we got to meet with a bunch of executives that now defunct networks, like see so and I don’t know if I see is like making original content anymore. But that being said, we were meeting with these people who all said, Oh, have you considered developing this further into a show and the web series was a series of escalating secrets that two characters were telling. So when you’re dedicated to like constantly escalating to have like, one idea, you know, snowball to something further and further and further, there’s only so much room you can take that when it’s a long form television show, especially it’s like a half hour show. And so we wrote a pilot version of this. And we realized that like, even in the pilot, there was so much that happened, how do you sustain this as a show, it just felt like there needed to be an end. And it took like a year of developing beyond the TV show to realize that oh, actually, a 90-minute movie is kind of the perfect vehicle, because you do have like a clear beginning, middle and an end. And so that’s when, you know, John and I realized, you know, we should go from half hour show to a 90-minute movie.
Ashley
So you were doing a number of other things, other shorts, you have other scripts. I mean, I remember in the writers group, you were putting up other stuff. So why did you ultimately settle on Larry? Like, why do you think your passion, as you say, you’ve been pushing this now for 10 years, was there just something you saw in the reaction of people? Was there something just in the writing, the chemistry with your writing partner? Why did you choose sort of to get invested in this project versus any number of your other projects?
Greg Porper
That’s a great question. There’s so many projects that I’ve written in the past that as I’m writing it, as passionate as I was about it when I started, it kind of fizzles for one reason or another. In the case of Larry, I was so obsessed with this character. I was so excited to dive in and explore. And it’s something that just like truly like was a joy to write. And it’s something that for such a long time, we all got this as writers. We have the writer’s block or we just, there’s just that fatigue over an idea. And thinking of this idea and having it in my head in different variations for over a year and never once being sick of it. And on top of seeing how people react to it, that was kind of enough fuel to say like, all right, this is the project that I’ve been looking for. I love the possibilities. It can kind of go in any direction. The web series was fun to make. How do we build on this world or we set up these little nuggets of things in the web series that we then expand upon in the movie. But then how to, of course, how do we make this not feel just like a bigger web series? How do you make it feel like a full budget movie? So, I just, I think it’s just because there’s an enthusiasm to work on the project. And we did 20 drafts of this thing because everything’s a puzzle in this script. There’s a cause and effect. So one little change on page, one little change on page three affects the rest of the script. And there was over 10 full page one rewrites. But every time we had a page one rewrite, as opposed to being like, oh, I can’t believe I’m doing this again. It’s like, great, I cannot wait to see how the story’s going to change now because of this one little nugget that changes on page three. And that was just a sign that like, this is that project.
Ashley
So just did you have, did you take some of the scenes from the web series? Did you take some of the scenes from the pilot? Did any of those actual scenes make it into the final production?
Greg Porper
Yes. So there’s one scene that was in the web series that is loosely included in the movie, but it was like that scene on steroids. Like we alluded to a scene where two characters are drinking. They accidentally drink Larry’s kombucha. And Larry then, you know, enters the office. This is in the web series and wants to drink kombucha. But another character who, you know, there’s a surprise drug test and long story short, they find themselves mistaking the kombucha for pee. And that was a scene that’s when people watched it. I mean, it’s equally cringe as it is just like laugh out loud funny. And that was actually an element that we wanted to have in our story in the feature, we did not know how we were going to get there and where we were going to go from that point. But as opposed to starting on page one, like what’s the story going to be? We had that point and we kind of like reverse engineered and work backwards. The initial I’d say the initial fact of like Susan not inviting Larry to a company party. That was from the web series. But in the web series that was an accident in the film, it was intentional. And that’s an example of one of those page three rewrites. We did versions where it was accidental, and that had one ripple effect. And we did versions where it was intentional and that had another. So those two elements remained. And then other than that, there was a few little Easter eggs and jokes that were in the web series that we included. But other plot points were separate.
Ashley
So take us through your writing process and maybe you can just talk to, I know there’s other people out there just listening to this and they’re writing with someone. So I just always like to just like technically, how does it work? And just what does it look like writing with John? Did you guys sit in the same room? Were you on zoom calls? Is there some specific tools, Google docs, Celtics, final draft, just walk through sort of just your process of writing this thing with John. John, how that goes just from a in-person standpoint, technical standpoint, any tools you might have used. Of course.
Greg Porper
So generally, I write alone, and I’m a solo writer on most of the things I write. So, to me as normal is to have a final draft document and use the alternate page, using the beat board to kind of plan things out and to write out what the different characters are doing and color coding that. I do find that helpful more so than actually a physical cork board, which I do have, and I rarely use it. I find I do it digitally. And then I use a lot of Google Docs as well to just write down notes, and then I usually go through them again and will retype certain things out and re-synthesize the notes. I have brain dumps in the Google Doc, and in the case of writing with John, that became a shared document. It was kind of easy to take this workflow and adapt it to two people. We started writing this in 2018, so this is before Zoom was a thing. John lived in Pasadena at the time, and I was in Culver City. And we were meeting at coffee shops. I know we first started talking about writing this movie at an IHOP on Wilshire Boulevard, like in mid-Wilshire. We would meet in person to kind of talk things out to the initial outline discussion, general discussion of what’s the plan going forward, bigger picture things. But then very quickly, because we both had full-time jobs and we lived on opposite sides of town, we were writing between 6 and 9 AM most days before work started, and we were doing so usually via Skype, or just we had the phone on speaker, and we were using Final Draft, using the collaborator function, which ended up being quite glitchy. And so I would be the one kind of actually making the edits, the changes, writing it, and then John would be viewing it as I was doing it, because we found that when both of us started editing, there would be a glitch, and we wanted to make sure that we always had a clean copy. So every day, or really, multiple times a day, there would be multiple drafts saved that in case there were glitches, we can go back and revert to certain versions. And in this case, we really kind of talked through scene by scene, beat by beat, line by line together. There was very rarely we went off to say, all right, I’m going to write this scene, you write that scene. A lot of times what happened was scenes that we had written together, I would go through and do a joke pass. I was very anal about making sure we need to be funny and funny, funny. Obviously, we need to tell our story, but this is a comedy, are we getting our jokes per page in? So there are times where I would then take the script and then just go through and a joke pass, and then the next time we would get on, I would say, here are the changes marked in blue, what do you think? And then he would chime in and make his edits or his thoughts, or I’d say this is great and move on. So that was kind of how that process went. Very rarely did we write in person.
Ashley
How did you meet John? How did you guys become friends so?
Greg Porper
We were real-life co-workers. John is an editor on, at the time, he was an editor on a reality show called Mystery Diners that was being produced by T Group Productions. That was the name of the production company where we were working. Also, it’s the same place where we met Kyle. So all three of us were real-life co-workers. And around the time that, again, as working in development, I was pushing for scripted content. And John caught wind of this from someone. I don’t know who, but he’s like, hey, do you know that there’s like Greg in development? Like he also likes scripted stuff in movies. And John liked movies. And I actually don’t remember who introduced us, but they’re like, oh, you guys both seem to like the same thing. You both have like similar sense of humor you should meet. And we met. And at the time I was working on that proof of concept version of worst birthday ever that I was ultimately pitching to the CW. And John wanted to see it. And I showed it to him. And I showed it was a cut that was a very early cut. And he’s like, oh, I have an idea. Like, can I try something? I was like, of course. That’s just always been my approach. It’s like two heads are better than one. I love outside input. And especially when it’s someone who had not seen the project before. And John just said, you know, you don’t have to keep this. But he took like, like one of the last moments that we had in that rough cut and like moved it to the top. And he like moved a few other things around and tried a few edits. He’s like, let’s watch it now and watch it now. I’m like, this is like 10 times better. Like this is great. And he’s such a strong editor. And just from there, I think that we realized we kind of had a shorthand and we were both laughing at the same stuff. And I think that’s kind of just how it started. We there was a similar sensibility. It was two people working in reality TV that whose passion was really, you know, outside of that. And then we started working on various web series together that we filmed. We both were making stuff on the side on our own. And then we were like, well, why not do it together?
Ashley
So, did you ever have where you just come to, come to just, you can’t agree on something and how do you work through those issues just if there is some disagreement?
Greg Porper
Of course, if there’s no disagreement between two people, regardless of the relationship, I always question what’s going on. So yes, we disagree all the time. observers would probably say we disagree more than we agree. But that I it’s all constructive. It’s always in the best interest of the story. And we both have that mutual appreciation that if we disagree on something, it’s because we believe that this is what’s best for the story. And we allow ourselves the space to talk through it. And ultimately, you know, there is a lot of kind of going back and forth, when there is an agreement ultimately, in like the case of Larry, you know, one thing that I learned when setting up a business was you can’t go fully 5050. In case when it comes to businesses decisions, because if there’s a true gridlock, then like the project is stuck. And so something like that, john and I talked about in this case, it’s like, all right, I’m going to be the one who’s the day to day like overseeing the LLC and producer and, in addition to being the writer and director and don’t tell I ended up being the full time producer, which is taking up pretty much 95% of this movie has been on the producing side of things, a whole other discussion there. But that being said, there was that understanding that okay, like anything that’s that kind of business-related pertaining to this movie, if there’s a true-true stalemate gridlock that like I had that final say, but ultimately, I would never do anything without consulting, you know, with him. And I think ultimately, it’s hearing each other out and being patient. And then in some cases, it really is like picking your battles because there are times where we’re disagreeing on something. But one of us is so much more passionate than the other. And that passion usually is enough for us to be like, well, you really believe in this moment. Right? Like there’s an edit in the movie that always irks me, I’m not going to say what it is. But that’s something that like john loves and vice versa. And you know, there’s times where just like, you have to, you know, compromise. And you also just have to be able to work through it together. And you can’t be precious to absolutely everything. And I do think like we do find that balance nicely. But there’s definitely there’s definitely disagreements for sure.
Ashley
So how did your development process go with this? Obviously, you had a lot of material coming into it. It sounds like you had your lead actor already sort of in mind. So just as you’re writing this script over the years or months, are you giving pages to your lead actor, getting notes? You said you went through whatever 10, 20, you know, different drafts on this. What did that look like? Were you, who were you getting notes from? And then how did you interpret those notes and then what did it look like when you went back in and actually did those changes?
Greg Porper
Of course. I have written the script with Kyle in mind to play Larry and at the time I was in the Deadline Junkies writers group, Deadline Junkies, which I know has been shout out before on this podcast, but the fact that the actors get to read that there are amazingly talented actors that get to read the pages out loud and even though it’s a cold read you really get to hear what your words sound like and you really pick up on the rhythms and you can realize like wow this line of dialogue is so wordy and no one talks like that or you can you can pick up on the fact of like okay there’s really a lull here it’s just feeling slow like you’re you know I’m looking around and people are looking at their watches okay that’s not working it was like great to get that like in-person feedback and obviously there was rounds of notes from the people in the writers group who were all giving really constructive notes after the read on certain pages so development like heavily went through Deadline Junkies um that was once though there was like a finished story at play but that was a lot of those page one rewrites came from notes we heard in Deadline Junkies notes that I had sent off to other trusted writer friends that I know in a few cases I sent it to someone who was just not in the business at all because I just wanted that perspective and usually if a note was if you hear a note once that’s one thing and again I clock every single note every single note I’ve ever received I’ve written down in a in a google doc um even when we were in Deadline Junkies I had recorded people’s notes back to me so I in case I didn’t miss anything when I was you know quickly writing stuff down but if you hear that note like a second time now like I star it I bold it I move it to the top and I said okay there’s something like what’s the note behind the note or in this case like what’s the thing we’re seeing and then especially if you get it a third time that’s usually when I’m like really like okay this is something that really needs to be addressed because there’s times where you can get a note the same note from two different people that don’t like something but I really like it and it’s this objective note and this is what I want to do but there’s other times when you hear from a third person and ultimately our goal of this movie is not just to make we want to make something that we liked and then we loved because that’s what Don’t Tell Ari is it’s the movie that it’s like it’s my favorite movie it’s like the type of movie I’ve always loved um but also I can’t just I have to be mindful of how this is being received in the world and I want this to be something that other people will like too and I do want to take mainstream approaches so I wanted to take creative risks but at the same time like if we’re getting the same kind of note like this thing is just not working for us that’s something to really take into consideration to think to think well if it’s not working for these three people there’s a whole other slew of people it may not work for so let’s like just talk about it not necessarily fully changing but like let’s address it
Ashley
Yeah, yeah. How did you know when you were finally ready to shoot? You’re doing all these different drafts. How did you and John know, okay, now we really feel like we’ve solved this this puzzle and we’re ready to go.
Greg Porper
So, it was December 2019, January 2020, and the script is feeling really good. And I said, all right, I think I think this is it. We can do it. Let’s go. There was, you know, something going on. We heard in China at the time. This is just before like COVID became real COVID. And very quickly, we realized, okay, this is like not the time to make a movie.
But we felt really good about it about a year after. So, this is now January 2020. But COVID forced us to say, we’re sitting with this, I remember kind of leaving the script be for like a month or two, like after looking at it every single day, and rereading with a fresh set of eyes, I’m like, oh, this should change. This should change. Oh, we should do this. Let’s do this. And just being away from the script allowed to us to revisit it. And that actually then from there, it’s like, you do have to know like when to stop up with the edits. But we realized there was more work to be done. And I think the original those drafts at the time in January 2020, it was written for this is a really fun story, but it wasn’t written with, well, how are we going to do this, you know, on a on a tight production budget? The main character in the opening scene was, you know, rushing through the streets of Milwaukee, holding a cake for her boss while on a scooter. And then she nearly gets hit by a car and she wipes out and she’s on the docks and she’s on there’s a boat where the party is. And the boat starting to go into Lake Michigan and because she was late. And so she gets on a kayak and she’s on the kayak and she’s going toward the boat and she climbs up the side of the boat. That’s super fun. That’s a lot of fun. That’s not happening in this movie. So, it’s like there’s moments like that that just like just reevaluating it with a production standpoint. So, like those edits then like throughout 2020, going into 2021, because we were editing up until production and even during production, which was in 2022. It was really more the edits were now becoming more so on the production mindset. And it’s like sometimes there’s changing the location, but again, even a few times changing the location ended up having an unintended ripple effect moving forward as well. So, there were some page one rewrites even at that point as well.
Ashley
Wow. So, let’s talk about production a little bit. The first step to that was raising the money. And it sounds like you kind of got yourself fortified so you could go in full time and try and be the full-time producer on this. So maybe you can speak to that a little bit. What do you recommend if someone’s got a script that they’re really a feature script that they’re happy about? What did you do to raise money for? Don’t tell Larry what mistakes do you make? What things worked really well and you would recommend other people maybe try.
Greg Porper
So, this was a situation for years, I’ve taken note of any time someone has said to me, you know, let me know like, oh, I would love to see that movie when you have it. Or, yeah, let me know when you’re doing this. Or there’s those people you kind of come across sometimes where you kind of have like that one ask. And I kind of plot like I kind of made notes of those people. And people go through all facets of life people I worked with people like grew up with whatever it may be. And it wasn’t always necessarily for funding, it was sometimes it was for ideas that the very first people I met with, first of all, I met with, I want to give my dad a humongous shout out because my dad encouraged me to, to move forward with this movie. And we there were some family friends who were just very business savvy, who, before even raising the funds, I needed to kind of know, well, what does that waterfall structure look like? What does the back end look like? What is a deal that works for investors that’s enticing for investors? And he kind of just worked with me on like, create like, giving notes on a pitch deck that I created. And then he suggested I, you know, reach out to some family friends to simply talk to them about it. And so by talking to some family friends, I got the input I needed to then kind of go out to other people, not necessarily the people I was talking to, but I use that as a tool then to go out to other people. But it’s also just like telling as many people as possible, this is what I’m doing is really helpful. And even throughout the stages of writing it, I was telling people I’m writing it, I can’t wait to show you the script when it’s done. Then when it came out to actual fundraising, and I had a pitch deck where I intentionally like made it like very as investor friendly as I can make it also completely upfront, the people I was pitching were people who weren’t in it to make as much money as quickly as possible. And in a few cases, I came across those people. And I said, it seems like this is not for you when they’re expecting, you know, 20%, you know, 120% back of their investment in six months. I can’t guarantee that I can’t give you, you know, first money back over, you know, what the distributor gets, like, that’s something I just can’t promise. And so, it was kind of quickly weeding out those sorts of people. But I reached out to nearly anyone I’ve ever met and brought up to them and said, hey, I’m in that, you know, I’m making a movie, I’m looking for investors, are you interested? Do you know anyone? And what the other thing I had, which was helpful was the web series was a proof of concept. And having a proof of concept was strong enough to show people like, oh, like, this is funny. Now, imagine if there was an actual budget to make this funnier and bigger. And that was really helpful, because I think seeing the web series out there, you know, the web series was featured in the front pages of Funny or Die and various websites. So, there was a bit of a proven track record, it was at multiple festivals won some awards, that really helped. Additionally, I made a pitch video with John and I’ve seen all these like videos that people post on Kickstarter before. And a lot of them kind of are all the same. And I’m like, well, how can we be different? And so John and I neither who are actors, again, going back to before I’m putting myself in front of the camera, we caught Kyle who plays Larry graciously agreed to be with us where we filmed over one day, a pitch video where John and I are pitching the movie, but very quickly, Kyle gets upset that he wasn’t invited to be or Kyle as Larry gets upset that he wasn’t invited to be a part of the pitch video. And so now some of the pitch video while john and I are trying to explain what we want from investors and what we’re trying to do. Larry’s now giving us a hard time and he’s getting angry with us and angry with us and he ends up tying us up and he’s doing all these crazy things. And when we show that to people, they kind of got it because it was like the tone of our movie like we’re self-aware, we’re edgy, we’re a little awkward, but like we’re funny and grounded in ridiculousness. And I think that like that tonal sense really gave people a clear picture of like what they you know what we were intending to do. And it was also proof that like, oh, we can execute it. Now, we were making these things on such a small budget. I think there was some confidence there that okay, if these guys had a bigger budget, we could do something with it.
Again, being first dollars in was helpful, because people said, oh, like you’re not just, you know, looking for money, you’re putting in money yourself. Like, you know, that’s, that’s respectful, commendable, I think that’s the word. The other thing that was just fortunate with timing was, this was the time, while I was raising funds, Bitcoin is doing very, very well. And so when I was talking to certain people, I preface that as saying, well, you know, you could diversify, and, you know, invest in this movie, and you’re not just, you know, you’re not just, you know, It’s not about the potential return because I was honest with them. Like if that’s your intention, don’t invest. So, people appreciated that honesty, but it was saying like, just diversify. And on top of that, you’re supporting artists. Like the money that you’re investing is giving jobs to people. And that for some people that helped again, I probably pitched 500 people, 600 people truly in Zoom meetings or in person or over the phone. And ultimately, I think it was like 36 or 38 people, you know, came in. But it was like, again, it was a lot of no’s, a lot of, oh, this sounds really interesting, but I can’t do it. And I completely understood that. The other thing to some other people is that, you know, when investing in a movie, we kind of saw like the timeframe of we were going to be going into production in 2022, so that was going to be a year of a big loss. So as a pass-through LLC, I know this is in the weeds. This is something that I learned throughout this process. You’re going to get a loss on your investment. So, if you’re making profits on other things, you can kind of write off some of these losses. And so there actually is some tax benefits more so that you can get. So actually, that’s a few people invested actually, not for that reason, but that was just a kind of a reason of like helping them get over the hump. But yeah, it’s just getting really, it’s getting as creative as you can. It’s, it’s something that I encourage because it’s really hard and I felt really uncomfortable and it took a long time for me to get to a place where I can go to family and friends and to friends of friends and to friends of friends of friends and seeing on websites like WeFunder, which is a crowd funding website, I saw people who are raising funds for other movies and then I would look them up on LinkedIn and send them cold messages and say, Hey, I saw you invested in my friend Desiree’s movie, Desiree Staples. You know, would you be interested in investing in this one or do you know anyone? And a lot of people who invested were people I had never met before, but it’s through friends of friends or, and, or through friends of family or through, and you know, a few family friends, people I met, that was kind of like, just, it was a full time job that in itself and then the consistent follow up and at a certain point, we got Ed Begley Jr. on board and that was a reason to go back to a bunch of people to say like, Hey, I know back then it was kind of like a, an idea to make a movie, but now like, look, we actually have this actor and volatiles committed. Here’s the signed agreement. Like that helped get a few more people as well. It was becoming more real and people were getting excited.
Ashley
I mean, I hope people really listen to just what you just said, because I mean, pitching 600 people and getting 38 investors is like 6%. So, I mean, that’s a lot of pitching, but there’s really no magic to what you just said. It’s really just a lot of hard work and it’s just committing yourself to doing that work over the course of months and probably even years. Just you keep saying to, um, when you were doing this pitch deck, um, it, you made it as investor friendly as possible. What does that mean? How do you make your pitch deck more investor friendly?
Greg Porper
So, again, from an individual standpoint, not the smartest, but there was a lot of out-of-pocket expenses even that I had, you know, as a writer, director in a movie, there should be a line item for what I’m doing. There was no line item for that. The investor would get their money back before I got my money back for the work that I did. And for a good amount of people, that, like, spoke volumes to them. Is it the smartest thing for me personally? No. No. If there was someone who shouldn’t have invested in that movie, if you’re just looking solely at finances, it should not have been me. But the other thing I was doing at the same time was I was proving to people that I was serious about this. So, like, I sold my car. I changed up my lifestyle. Like, there was actual sacrifices that I had made to show people how serious I was. And while going through this process of pitching people, I would constantly keep the people who said no or maybe very involved. I was treating them as if they were yeses. I was treating every person as if they were a yes to just give not to bombard them constantly, but to give them updates and to show excitement and enthusiasm. And in a few cases, there were people who originally said no, who changed their mind. And honestly, it’s like people were just like, I just, like, respect the hustle. That was part of it. And then the other thing we had done later on, there was a lot of people who said, I really wish I could, but I can’t because you need it when investing. And a tip I would give is, like, you need to have, like, a high enough minimum because for every investor, there’s hours of paperwork and tax work that you’re going to have to do over the years that I’m now learning the hard way on. And you want to minimize the number of investors if you can, just because it’s a lot to keep track of. And to, first of all, when you’re always updating them and you’re dealing with the paperwork and everything related to taxes and legal stuff, like, it’s just a lot of work there. But for people who wanted to give money but couldn’t, but maybe want to get 25 bucks or 50 bucks, that’s when I set up a GoFundMe for that. And that, you know, we ended up getting, like, another, again, it wasn’t much. I would say it was maybe, like, 8 to 10 grand initially. But through that GoFundMe, it actually got to a wider audience than through Facebook people saw. And then I also prefaced that as saying, well, for those who want to invest, let me know. And some people saw that and actually got additional investors because they were just people who saw the pitch video version, but, like, for donations. We had a version we had for investors, then we actually made some tweaks and edits to have, like, a more friendly version for, you know, you want to donate 10 bucks. That’s perfect. Thank you so much. And that people were sharing that and spreading that, and that’s how a whole new slew of people saw it.
Ashley
Gotcha, gotcha. So, you mentioned Ed Beagley Jr. How did you get him involved in this project?
Greg Porper
So, Ed came aboard through, we hired a casting director, Ricky Masler. Ricky’s fantastic. And we had a short list of people we wanted to play the boss. And with this movie, there was a lot of improv that we wanted. We had a very set script, but the intention was to always utilize improv. And to have, let’s say we had three takes. First two were, you know, pretty much by the book. And then the third one, there was going to be alts. And I had like a whole book of alts. And we’re just going through the list of like, who are just some like really funny people? It’s, you know, again, it’s a quirky character. Like who fits this world? And it’s like Ed Begley Jr. was on our short list. And when we presented this to Ricky, she’s like, oh, I actually, I can get it to his agent. Like, I can’t promise anything, but like, I know who his agent is. So at least, you know, I know directly where to send it to. And so it’s not as cold of an email as it could be if she didn’t at least send something to him in the past. But it got to Ed’s agent. And we then got a call from Ed, who was like, I love this script. I want to do it. And I’m like pinching myself. I’m like, is this really happening? And he’s like, this is so funny. I just like, I want to be a part of it. And I said, like, seriously, like what’s happening right now? So we just got really lucky that, you know, first of all, he read the script, but that he loved it so much.
Ashley
Yeah, yeah. So then did you do the festival circuit? Once you had the film done, did you go out and submit the festivals and did that ultimately help you find a distributor?
Greg Porper
did do the festival route, we really, we aimed, I would say we aimed high, we aim to all the big festivals. And knowing that, you know, in most of those cases, that the percentages of getting in are minuscule, it’s easier to get into like Harvard than it is to get into these festivals, just by the number percentages. Yeah. And we got into the Austin Film Festival, which is a fantastic festival in general, it’s a great writers festival. That’s how I knew it. I wasn’t really as familiar with their film component. But because there was some name recognition with Austin, we were a movie that actually shot in Texas. It felt like a really like full circle moment to kind of have our premiere there. And I’m really glad we did because there were so many people I met through Austin, there were a bunch of distributors, not necessarily there, but distributors who were watching the films that were getting into the festival, because then all of a sudden, you know, I think my emails up on IMDB. I always encourage people to reach out, I will always like respond to someone who reaches out because that’s what I respect the hustle so much. And there were distributors that did reach out through that. And then in other cases, I would do a little digging and say like, what are the companies that I should be reaching out to? In one case, my mother-in-law was sitting on a plane next to an accountant at shout studios, and talked about my movie and I ended up reaching out to this accountant. And it was like the email subject was like, you sat next to my mother-in-law on a plane. And then she connected me to someone on the acquisitions team. And it just a lot of times was like that, or I would speak to other filmmakers, who did you speak to? Like a lot of times it was going through like, how can I find a direct connection myself? And in a few other cases, it was, you know, distributors did find me and that helped jumpstart things. And that was Austin is what jumpstarted the offers. We got one offer before Austin, but a bunch of offers came in after Austin.
Ashley
Gotcha. And who did you end up settling on for distribution?
Greg Porper
So we’re with a level 33 entertainment. There’s a lot of great companies we met with in the case. And first of all, I want to also promise by saying as this was all going on, I was getting to a point where I was thinking like, should I self-distribute? And I know that’s like, that’s, that in its own right is so much work. But even we’re working with a full distributor, a full-time distributor and level 33, so far my experience with them has been great. There’s still so much work I’m doing constantly regardless of the fact that I have a distributor because of course in my gospel, now that you bring on a distributor, the revenue gets cut, but then they also have the ability to get to a bigger reach, it helps legitimize it. So, there was that conversation first. So, once we then decided we’re going to go with a distributor, when we’re meeting with different companies, what I really liked about level 33 was they don’t take on as many films as some of these other movies with bigger libraries so that when they’re going to film markets, it’s maybe four or five movies that they’re pitching out, not hundreds. I was connecting directly with the CEO, Andreas, who, great guy, and as opposed to some of these other companies, I was speaking to someone who was like three or four levels down and there were times where I wanted to meet the CEO or the head of the company before signing with them and magically I can never actually meet with that CEO because they were in a meeting or even when I went in person to an office. And so I wanted to really get to meet like the face of the company that I’d be working with and then with level 33, I had that ability. And there’s very few, I don’t think I can go into too many specifics, but there was a minimum guarantee also, which helped, and then they also were open to a theatrical component. And I think those two elements helped just make their offer stand out from the rest.
And then also very amenable to certain contract terms that other companies would refuse to kind of budge on and they were very open to having kind of me stay on board and like be like a creative force with them as opposed to other companies. They say like, all right, you deliver us the film and sit back and we’re going to handle it. I couldn’t do that to this product that’s been a part, like I have to continue seeing it through and basically having creative control over how the movie is getting distributed, how we’re promoting it, what we’re using, the trailer that was created, like I got to, those are the notes that I gave was what the trailer became and most distributors I find aren’t doing that. And the fact that they did is something that I’m just appreciative of.
Ashley
Why did you guys shoot in Texas? Just out of curiosity.
Greg Porper
So, we wanted to film in Los Angeles because that’s where we live. We needed to take over a full office. We need to take over multiple suites in an office building, not just because our main set took place in an office, but also because we needed, you know, individual areas for cast. You know, we have to follow strict COVID protocols. We needed a designated area to test people. We needed an area with a lot of parking for all the cars. We needed a big enough space where people can eat and remain six feet apart from each other. And in LA, the places that had these things, the price for those locations were astronomical. And it got to the point where we had, we, there was a place in Calabasas where we did have access to filming, but we had to film it within a certain window. Like it kind of checked off the boxes. It did not have the idea, look, this movie does not take place in Southern California and out the main window, there’s all these cacti. So, that would have been like something we would have had to adjust or avoided, but we didn’t really want to have to shoot around our location. And ultimately, the script got sent to a producer based in text in the Dallas area, a production fixer who really liked the script and made the pitch to me and John to say, Hey, have you guys thought about filming elsewhere? And at this point in time, we were open to going elsewhere just because we were seeing that logistically was really hard in Los Angeles. There was an office suite in Los Angeles that was absolutely perfect that we loved, but the tenant was like, you can’t tell the building owner that you’re here. You can’t be in, you know, beyond five o’clock. There was just all these restrictions that were like, this just isn’t going to work. And he’s like, oh, by the way, I don’t have parking, but I don’t think it’s a big deal. You could probably just park down the street. I don’t think it’s an issue. Like there was never like that ultimate place that worked. So, I went to Dallas and I feel like I lived in Dallas for probably eight months between like 2021 and 2022 because through pre-production, um, I was like the office, the look of the office was so important. I went around to again, no joke, probably 150 to 200 offices in the Dallas Fort Worth area over the course of, you know, three months trying to find that place that not only had a great looking office or an office with enough bare bones that we could dress up, but then that also had all those other spaces. And then we did find the building that essentially gave us eight suites for the price of, you know, what one suite would cost here in LA. And it’s like, okay, we can actually like function here. We have an entire parking lot. The building manager is like excited that we’re there. In fact, he ended up becoming one of the characters in the movie because he’s also an actor. So that like worked out really nicely. And there was just like an excitement that there was a movie coming to town and I wish LA were more like it, but I understand why it’s not because that’s, it’s what people are used to here. Paramount or a big studio can come to a location and offer a lot of money to shoot in the restaurant for the day. So now that’s the expectation that that’s what all productions are going to cost and then smaller budget movies come in and, you know, they don’t have those same budgets. So, the restaurant or the location is going to say no. So, you know, never thought I was going to film this movie in Dallas, but Dallas also had to like anywhere USA luck that we were going for. And also it was very easy to shoot with a process trailer there, very easy to get police and shut down streets, much harder to do that here in LA. So those are factors that kind of contributed to it and finding that office location ultimately was what allowed me to say, like, okay, we can officially move forward now. Cause I did not, we production kind of getting pushed back because we didn’t have that office.
Ashley
So, when you’re talking about distributors, you mentioned that you wanted to be involved in this whole marketing process. And before the call, you had alluded to trying to avoid some of the typical errors that independent filmmakers make. Maybe you can just speak to that a little bit. I’d be curious to hear what is your approach? What are some of the things that they’re coming to you that you’re having to deal with the distributor in terms of these creative decisions, the direction of the distribution?
Greg Porper
I mean, a lot of it is like, there’s a most distributors will have like a recoupable expense account where like there are there’s money that’s going to go into marketing that that goes back to the distributor before, you know, the filmmakers sees their cut of money that comes back in. And a lot of companies, some are actually honest about and others I think are just clearly lying to their teeth. You know, they said like they don’t share what that’s for or they get very strategic on how that money is being spent or it’s like kind of an opportunity for companies to pay themselves. That’s the sense I was getting in from other filmmakers I’ve spoken to they’ve had those experiences.
In this case with so far level 33 at least, you know, when bringing up there’s a PR firm we wanted to bring on we met with a lot of different PR companies and we met this great company Emily Blair media that took a different approach to how to market this movie. It wasn’t to market this movie as just like, okay, we’re going to go to all these networks and try to get cast on Jimmy Kimmel and, you know, have your movie promoted in this magazine or that magazine. It was thinking of like, no, like here’s the list of like tick tock influencers who do movie reviews and here’s the people that you should team up with to talk about your movie and have them promote it to their following and taking like that digital first approach and treating the movie itself as like a brand release. Like they’ve never released a movie before they have, you know, from a PR standpoint, they’ve done plenty of brands, fashion brands, food brands, they represent, you know, athletes, other personalities, influencers. And so taking that approach to how to release our film, you know, that is something that a marketing spend going to them to help to help orchestrate that strategy was something that I then pitched back to level 33 to say, like, I think this is like some of that marketing expense that you have, like, this is what it should go to. And, you knowthere’s a back and forth and ultimately you’re like, yes, there’s an allotted amount is going directly to them and have being able to have a say where some of that money is going that spend again with the intention that this is money that’s going to go back to the film. It’s good for everyone, right? There’s mutual incentive there. That’s just something that I felt has been unique to my experience that I haven’t heard from a lot of other filmmakers on.
Ashley
Now, what does that mean, though? You’re releasing it as more like a brand than a movie. I remember on Facebook at one point you were trying to just meet with other Larry’s Larry David there. And so does that sort of play into this? But maybe you can explain that. What does that actually mean? How do you launch a brand versus launching a movie?
Greg Porper
Of course, in the case of Don’t Tell Larry, obviously, there’s the title Don’t Tell Larry, I do think like the brands, like what Don’t Tell Larry represents in terms of tone has been very consistent with kind of every project I’ve ever made. It’s like, it’s a dark comedy, it’s something that’s going to make you laugh, gasp and cringe. And it’s like those elements in there. So, everything that we put out are related to this movie kind of has that element there. So, including this podcast. And this has more of a normal thing. But for example, you know, it’s coming up with a video game associated with Don’t Tell Larry. It’s, you know, because it’s an obvious movie, creating fake LinkedIn profiles for the cast. The movie takes place at a fictional travel agency, it’s actually building out that website, you know, an AI chatbot in the tone of our character. And so our main character who can say the craziest thing. So you know, when you ask and this isn’t worth still working on, but you say like, Hey, Larry, what’s the weather today? And he’ll say like, you know, 68 degrees, but with a big chance of maybe raisins will fall from the sky, something that’s just really random, but true to his character. And the opportunity there is you’re not just interacting with the film by watching the movie. And that’s it is that once you watch the movie, there’s now going to be a whole slew of content that you can kind of keep watching. And so, you know, it’s teaming up with certain companies and other brands and companies and putting the character of Larry into other worlds. So other sketch comedy worlds, but that character Larry from our movie is there or our characters, Susan and Patrick show up in other places is something that we’re working on as well. And I think it’s just, they stay true to their characters, but they’re then put in organic situations that are true organic to a different brand. Like there’s a food company I’ve been talking with right now. Hope hoping for that to work out for potential like brand collaboration deal to have, you know, Larry and our cast promote some of their products, but to do so in the style of the movie. So it’s like filming short sketches again, but it’s, you know, highlighting their product. So, I think that’s like a little different. It’s like, it’s, it’s having these characters exist outside of the movie itself. And yeah, you’re talking about the Larry thing. It definitely, you know, I’m trying to meet as many Larry’s as I can for a fun, you know, for a long time. We went out on the street myself in one of our main characters. We went out on the streets of LA to show people the trailer to get their opinions on it. I’ve, today I got a haircut earlier this morning. I spoke to my barber and I showed him a picture of Larry and I had him describe what he would do to fix his hair. And that’s a video that’s going to come out soon of just how do you incorporate different people in businesses into the movie? So now all of a sudden a random barbershop, you know, Kevin’s barbershop in Culver City, they’re not going to be promoting the movie Don’t Tell Larry while we simultaneously will promote him and his business. And we want to do the different local businesses, different individuals. And so, and we want to do so with that like sense of humor that we have. So the tonally, it’s going to be consistent with Don’t Tell Larry the movie, but maybe the world that we’re in might be outside of the Don’t Tell Larry world, but the characters in the tone are still there.
Ashley
interesting. I just want to end on your ladybug story. I think that was a great story. And it’s very emblematic of this production. It sounds like usually it’s the opposite of what actually ended up having you. But tell us about that scene, because I think it’s just a great story. And it’s just to be clear to anybody looking to make a film. That’s not usually how it happens. It’s usually the opposite. It goes completely off. Yeah.
Greg Porper
And production was as chaotic as imaginable, but there were a few moments where luck was just on our side. And an example was, there was a scene in the movie, we had originally in our movie three different moments in which our main character, Susan, spots a ladybug, where a ladybug lands on her. And they happen at moments where she has to make a big choice and decision. And the ladybug landing on her, she interprets it as a sign of good luck, when really the ladybug, which we wrote to be a yellow and black ladybug, mind you, not a typical red ladybug, but a yellow and black ladybug, because the intention was we’re going to CGI a yellow and black ladybug to land on her in these moments. And the yellow and black, yellow, those colors represent a warning. So, we’re visually showing that this is a warning, but our character’s thinking it’s a sign of good luck. But as we’re filming the scene, and we’re going to wear Texas, it was I think in January, actually, when we filmed the scene. And we have it set up where Susan’s going to hold her hand out and was going to land on her hand. And then it was going to like fly out, like kind of go up her shoulder. And it was going to happen three other times in the movie as well. And again, we were always like a little iffy on how we were going to execute it. As we were filming the scene, not only did a ladybug land on her, but it was a yellow and black ladybug. It wasn’t a normal looking ladybug, it was a ladybug that actually was yellow and black. And Patti Guggenheim and Molly Franco, who were in that scene, while the whole cast is like this gasping and like not believing what they’re seeing, they played it off so naturally. And it looks so, and then not only was it on the hand moving around, but then after they say the line, the ladybug happens to fly away in between them, like through the camera. And it’s like, got chills. I’m getting chills even like retelling it, because it’s like, you cannot like, how does this happen? Like this just is the sort of thing that never happens. And that was so realistic. We actually ended up cutting the two other moments with the ladybug showing up, because we’re like, there’s no way we’re going to be able to match that. The best CGI possible would not look as good as what just happened. And then that also makes the moment even more special. So the fact that that happened was just truly wild, truly wild that sometimes like things do work out.
Ashley
Yeah. Hopefully it’s emblematic of the whole production. So, I just like to end the interviews by asking the guests, is there anything that you’ve seen recently that you can recommend to our mostly screenwriting audience? Anything on HBO, Netflix, Hulu, anything you’ve been watching that you would recommend?
Greg Porper
I just finished watching season one of the studio the Seth Rogan show. Okay, it’s a very inside baseball show It’s like from the studio perspective of like it follows a studio head and a fake, you know, Hollywood company How basically like the drama that goes on and trying to get like a big tentpole movie made and you know the conflict of like well I’m I care about the art but then also it’s like but yeah the arts not going to sell money like this movie about the Kool-Aid guy coming to life is Going to you know sell and I do think yeah, obviously it’s an extreme version of it But I you know from reading interviews about it and just learning a little more there’s a lot of real-life experiences that kind of Acted as inspiration for how the show came out and I think for like the screenwriting perspective I’m seeing that like in the studio system I’m saying like wow If I ever have a script one day that gets bought by a studio What that script is going to end up looking like is probably most likely going to look nothing like what was submitted to them But I just think it’s a it’s a fun like, you know wacky look into you know, that part of the entertainment industry So I definitely recommend it for people who are in the industry adjacent or curious
Ashley
I’ll check it out. Where is that playing? Is it on Apple? Okay, perfect, perfect. And what’s the best way for people to see Don’t Tell Larry? Where is that going to be released and where is it going to be available?
Greg Porper
So, June 20th, it’ll be out in select theaters in Los Angeles. It’ll be at the Lemley Royal in West LA for a week. It’s going to be in cities in Seattle, near Chicago, Minneapolis, working right now on doing something in the Dallas area, potentially Baltimore. And these are things that throughout the summer are going to happen, prefer more like individual specific screenings. And then just on June 20th itself, it’s going to also be available on Amazon to stream to rent or buy, I should say. And that’s probably the best way to do is like June 20th to look out for it. We might have a preorder link available before then, but that that’s where it will be available to watch.
Ashley
Perfect, perfect. And what’s the best way for people to keep up with what you’re doing? Twitter, Facebook, a blog, anything you’re comfortable sharing. You mentioned you also answer emails. So if you’re comfortable sharing your email, anything you want to share, I will round up for the show notes.
Greg Porper
Okay, great. So yeah, so I think for the movies related to the movie, like DTL the movie at gmail.com, if like, for like anything, don’t tell Larry related, I think that’s like the best way to get in touch. And that is also how to get in touch with me. For socials, like at DTL the movie, that is for Instagram for YouTube, for TikTok, Facebook, we’re at don’t tell Larry. Ultimately, I think we’re going to drive the most, put the most stuff on YouTube, Instagram and TikTok. And I would say like, that’s where we’re going to have exclusive interviews, you know, behind the scenes stuff. And then some of these other collab ideas I talked about, that’s where those stuff are going to are going to go.
Ashley
I just, this is a parting question. You know, you mentioned your, um, your barber doing a little video with him. Does he have his own tick tock channel? Like, are you looking for people that already have some audience? And so he already has a tick tock channel where he shows haircuts or something. And so then you’re sort of just piggybacking onto that or just, you’re bringing him into your way. He’s just an entertaining guy, making an entertaining clip.
Greg Porper
So it bits both cases in his case, he actually does have a little bit of a following on Instagram. But the way I see it too, by getting someone invested, like, because I get an Amanda in the street interview, I interviewed another came across a barber. That’s how I came across this idea of interviewing barbers to comment on our characters. In this case, he’s someone who he saw the trailer, he liked that by getting him involved. I have a good feeling because he said this to me, I cannot wait to tell my friends and family about this. And he’s going to now it’s even if it’s not a huge following, he’s going to directly talk to people. And I think that’s actually in a lot of ways more impactful when you can directly go to people. So yes, we have a combination. There’s some TikTok influencers who were doing some brands or some cross collaboration videos with that have very big followings. And that’ll get eyeballs on it for sure. And some of those eyeballs will translate. But we’re also going out to people who just are going to be excited about the movie. And we’ll just tell people about it. Because that word of mouth is really the strongest way to spread the word.
Ashley
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, Greg, good luck with this project. It’s exciting. You really covered your bases. I think there’s a great interview. There’s a lot of information in here for people if they’re looking to do something similar, create their own, write their own feature, and then have it produced themselves. This is a great episode for them to listen to. So thank you for coming on and good luck.
Greg Porper
Thank you so much, Ashley, for having me. Pleasure talking with you.
Ashley
Talk to you later. All right. Bye-bye.
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So only doing these podcasts once a month, I often don’t have the guests lined up for next month, which again for this month I don’t have the guests for next month. I’ve actually been following a number of producers and screenwriters on TikTok lately, and they have some interesting perspectives on a variety of topics. So I’m thinking about reaching out to some of those folks that I’ve been listening to and see if they might be willing to come on the podcast, which will be interesting because these are folks that you’ll have come with a little bit of different perspective than sort of the old school podcasting perspective, which I would say is sort of where I’m coming from, probably been around a while and podcasting is seeming a little bit dated now and maybe even dates me a little bit. So maybe the TikTok folks will be a little fresher and have a little fresher perspective. But I’ve been getting these TikTok’s and they’re interesting and if you have any interest in checking these out, you can go to TikTok and just type in screenwriting into the search bar and you’ll get a number of these. But some really interesting content and it’s a real short form, so it’s different than the podcast. Obviously, this podcast is kind of long Greg and I had a long conversation and I think that’s one of the things that’s cool about podcasting is it can be a longer form. And I felt like with the interview today, me and Greg really covered some ground. I thought he gave some great real insight that you just wouldn’t be able to cover in a TikTok. You know, they’re just too quick, too superficial. But there is still some interesting stuff on TikTok’s and just hearing different people’s perspective. So that’s what I’m thinking about for next month. That’s the show. Thank you for listening.