This is a transcript of SYS 459 – Film and TV Industry 3.0 With Corey Mandell .
Welcome to Episode 459 of the Selling Your Screenplay Podcast. I’m Ashley Scott Meyers, screenwriter and blogger with sellingyourscreenplay.com. Today I’m interviewing writer and screenwriting instructor, Corey Mandell. He’s had a long career in the business, both as a writer and an instructor. He works with a lot of writers. So, he has a lot of insight into the current market, what’s selling and where the business is going. So, we’ll cover all of these topics and more today with that interview. So, stay tuned for that.
If you want my free guide How to Sell a screenplay in five weeks, you can get that by going to sellingyourscreenplay.com/guide. It’s everything you need to know to sell your screenplay, I will teach you how to write a professional logline and query letter, and how to find agents, managers, and producers who are looking for material really is everything you need to know to sell your screenplay, just go to sellingyourscreenplay.com/guide. So quick few words about what I’m working on. So, I’m in the final stages of putting together this large NFT project for the Rideshare Killer. I know I’ve been talking about it for a while now. But I got sidetracked with the film festival. So hopefully I can finish this up in the next few weeks and then start marketing. I actually went to a Blockchain Summit here in Los Angeles this week, just to learn a little more about crypto, NFTS and blockchain. But also, just to look at some of the influencers, see who’s speaking on it. And those will be the people, at least some of the people that I will be reaching out, once I get this project done and start to really market it. You know, I just need to know who some of these people are. And I’m following them and learning from them as well. So hopefully, I can add to the conversation with my own project. I’m also in the process of trying to figure out where I’m going to host the film festival next year. Now that I’ve been through the festival once I have a pretty good idea about the economics of a festival like this. So, it’s not easy finding a cool location, you know, trying to create a cool atmosphere or cool Film Festival. So, you need a good location. But obviously, I’m very restricted by budget, because this is just it’s very difficult. You know, it’s just very difficult to rent a theatre at a decent price here in LA. So, I’m looking around on that I’ve definitely got some good leads. Hopefully, I’ll have announcement about that shortly. If you work at a theatre or know someone who owns a theatre, works at a theatre, has insight into a theatre in the Los Angeles area, definitely reach out to me, I’d love to talk to some other theatre owners and just kind of see what kind of deals might be out there. You can always email me at info at sellingyourscreenplay.com, as I said, if you have any information on a local theatre here in Los Angeles. Anyways, those are some of the things that I have been working on over the last few weeks. Now let’s get into the main segment. Today I am interviewing writer Corey Mandell. Here is the interview.
Ashley
Welcome back, Cory to the Selling Your Screenplay Podcast. I really appreciate you coming on the show with me today.
Corey
Thank you for having me.
Ashley
So, for the audience, you’ve been on the podcast previously in Episode 49, 78, and 143. So, I definitely encourage people to check those out. I think in Episode 49, we sort of talked about your origin story, how you got your start in the business. So, if people are kind of curious on that, I definitely recommend checking out that episode, if not the other ones as well. So, let’s start out today’s conversation. In some of the changes you’ve seen in this post COVID world, what are your thoughts on how COVID changed screenwriting landscape?
Corey
So obviously, during the first year in the lockdowns, all production basically froze. So, it was just they had so much projects that they couldn’t get made. And now they are we’re seeing that point where they’re exhausted their supplies of development. So, there’s a real, voracious hunger to buy more material. I’ve seen. I think in the last three months, I’ve seen more of my students selling scripts and pitches, and you know, any other three month period, and I’ve been doing this for about 15 years, so it’s crazy right now, because they’ve got to restock the coffers.
Ashley
And who were the most of the sales being made to like, what sort of sales are they?
Corey
The majority of sales is going to the streaming platforms, you know, for the first time now, something like 81% of all content is consumed on the streaming or paid premium cable platforms, not the free broadcast platform, just pretty crazy. Because the obviously the networks are free, and everyone has access to the networks and everyone has access to those platforms. And you know, as I’m sure you and your listeners know, on the feature space, in the last 10 days, I’ve seen three people sell feature scripts to the streaming companies and they’re either going to be streaming movies or hybrid. So, like right now in the theatres is all quiet on the Western Front written by one of my students, and that is a Netflix production and you can go see it in a theatre and you can see it on Netflix starting perhaps today or tomorrow. So, you know, they’re doing that hybrid of making features, putting them in theatres, but mainly using them on their platforms.
Ashley
So, some of the sales that you’re seeing from your writers, friends, just people in the industry, what is the level of their writing? And not so much in a subjective way? Oh, it’s awesome. They’re great writers. But what is the level of their experience? Are people breaking in, they’ve never sold anything, they’re getting a sale to a company like Netflix, or these writers that have been, you know, beating the bush for a while they have an agent, they have a manager, they’ve sold some lower budget stuff, what is sort of the pathway to making a sale at Netflix? What is the experience level of these writers?
Corey
Yeah, so it is all ranges. But obviously, anyone with a track record is going to have an advantage, anyone with representation, and I’m sure your listeners know this, that the main thing an agent or manager gives you is credibility. And so, you know, for instance, for myself, without rehashing all the details, but my first sell was that really Scott’s production, now they weren’t going to read my stuff and meet with me because of me. They did it because I was represented by Dan Cairns at ICM, who not only is a major agent, but she also represented or represent the time represented, Cali Corey who had written Thelma and Louise Ridley Scott had won the Academy Award, she was an unknown writer at that time. So, when Diane says, hey, I’ve got another unknown writer that can win you an Academy Award, you ought to read a script, clearly, they’re going to read the script. So obviously, having an agent or a manager is a big advantage. However, let me offer your listeners something that might be of help. So, for the longest time, as a teacher, what I focused on is helping writers improve their writing to write the kind of scripts that they need to be writing to break in the business, I wasn’t focused on how you break yourself into the business, because, you know, obviously, there’s no one path everyone needs to find their own way. But I got frustrated over time, because I found that I think there’s a lot of misinformation out there. And I think that a lot of information about what you should be writing, and how to get it out is very outdated, the world change not, we talked about COVID. But the world really changed about six years ago, and is this is the industry like 3.0, and everyone is doing industry 2.0, we can talk about that in a minute. But I created a on demand product is 99 bucks, but I’m going to offer it to all your listeners. I’ll tell you why they can get it for free. So, what this product does is it breaks down exactly what kind of scripts. When I say product, it’s me. And it’s several hours of content. So, it breaks down, what kind of scripts the Current TV industry is looking for what kind of scripts the feature industry is looking for breaks down what’s required to write those scripts breaks down, how to develop any skills that you currently aren’t strong enough at. And it’s not the punch line, is it oh, you got to take a class from me. That’s certainly an option. But I give people other options, including options that don’t cost money. It also covers this is so important, confirming that you’re writing at that level. And then it covers a topic, which I think goes right to what you’re asking, which is a lot of what I’m hearing from a lot of writers is okay, we keep hearing that this is the golden age of the second golden age of writers. And we keep hearing that Netflix is spending $18 billion Amazon spending $12 billion at week, you start throwing around the numbers. And it is mind boggling. And there’s never been so many opportunities. Okay, we hear that. That’s inspiring. But let me tell you what my reality is. My reality is when I go out to the industry, it seems like no one wants to read my script, unless I have representation. So, I reach out to agents and managers. And it seems like they will meet with me if I have a career. So, there’s this catch 22. What the hell do I do? I’ll go into exactly the right strategy and how to invest your time and how most writers do it. So let me just get this out of the way that we can continue on. Go to my website if you want CoryMandell.net. And there’s a tab says launch your career. And if you click on it, it takes you to this on demand product. I don’t remember the price is 99 bucks. 100. Round $100. Um, let’s create a coupon code right now for your listeners. What do you want to call it? You have the honor of labelling this coupon code.
Ashley
SYS100. That’s our initials.
Corey
SYS100. So, here’s what I’ll do. I’ll keep that coupon code active for four weeks after this episode airs just let me know when it drops. And for once this drops for the next four weeks. When you check out us sys, all small caps, 100. And you will get all of that content for the low, low, low, low price of free. That is because you’re smart enough to be listening to Ashley’s podcast.
Ashley
Well, thank you very much. I’m sure we’re going to get some people taking you up on that. So yeah, so let’s circle back. You know, how do people use This information, what are people selling? What are they looking for?
Corey
The world. So, I’m sure as you know, and your listeners probably know, for the longest time, everything was paradigm driven. And everything was a formula. And so, if we look at TV, and we’ll talk about features too, but if you look at TV, it was the network’s. And up until like 2005, that was the industry. And their mark, their model was the most number of viewers possible. They didn’t care if you’re actually paying attention, they just wanted you having their show on. Because the higher the ratings, the more money. So, they wanted shows that were not challenging, were easy to digest. And you could have on in the background, because what they realized like from the 1970s on is that most people would come home, they’d be exhausted, they turn the TV on, it was almost like a companion, they make dinner, they do that, and they’d have it on while they worked that habit on when they did the laundry. So, the shows were, it was the same structure over and over again, like a comedy or a police procedural. Because if you tuned out and you got busy and you look back, you’re like, oh, I could keep watching because I know the storyline. And if you went on vacation, or you couldn’t watch for a few weeks, each episode was self-contained. Right. So, there weren’t narrative arcs. So, because there was no DVRs, some of your really young listeners are like what. And so, it was all a specific paradigm. And they were they were creating comfort food; it was like macaroni and cheese. And everyone was doing it. And they’d have a higher concept or the right star. And that’s all they wanted. They wanted. They wanted you to write within these confines, but try to make it unique, but stay in the confines. Same thing with the summer movies, obviously, the comic book movies, the big broad comedies, they were all very paradigm driven. We’re the only time you would see writers break from form and just write authentic characters and story were the award chasing prestige films. And when I was in film school in 1999, it’s so funny, because I was there to be a feature writer, and James burrows was teaching this TV class, James burrows, and some of my friends are trying to take that talk me into it. And I’ll never forget, I’m like, oh, please. Like, I’m a feature writer. And the thought was, if you can’t make it in features, you go into TV, like that was the mindset. I mean, boy, the world changed, like, you know, seven years later, but anyway. And then what changed, everything, obviously was streaming, and streaming changed everything. And so, the whole model change, so streamers, don’t care about aggregate number of people, because they don’t sell commercials, all they care about is that you keep subscribing their magazine business, and you’re paying a monthly subscription. So just think about this, if there’s not a show on Hulu, that you have to be watching, you don’t subscribe to Hulu, if there’s not something on Apple TV that you have to be watching. And people will turn off their subscriptions and turn it back on. And so, what they need is a TV show or TV shows for different demographics that make somebody say I got to pay to keep watching this. And so, what they’re looking for, are shows that create emotional attachment. Having a star doesn’t matter having a high concept that can help me get people to watch the first episode. But what they live or die by and I work with a lot of show runners is follow through and follow through is what percentage of people who watch the first episode, watch all the episodes. They want loyal, passionate viewers, and it can be a million. I mean, Seinfeld last episode 74 million people watched it. That was a very successful metric at the time, you can create a show right now on a streaming network that gets 800,000 viewers. And it is incredibly successful if those 800,000 people watch every episode, because they can’t mark it. It’s saturated, there’s too much content so they need loyal passionate viewers, which means that show has to matter to these people. And they are going to watch every episode even though they have a million other possibilities competing further interest. So, what they now realize is it’s everything is flipped upside down. It used to be, create shows that everybody kind of likes, but doesn’t offend anybody. Because when its ratings driven if you’re watching a show, and you’re very conservative or very liberal friend walks by or your child walks by, or your grandmother walks by, or your super religious friend and your atheist friend walked by, they don’t want any of those people to be offended. They want all of those people to build a watch it so they would never make any of the current shows but never have gotten made. Now it’s the exact opposite. They need a core group of people to love and commit that show. And if other people are like, oh fleabag is too sexual, Breaking Bad is too violent, this show affronts, my religious beliefs, great, don’t watch it watch this show. Instead, they want shows that people can emotionally connect to. And this is now moving to features because features in TV, because of the streaming platforms are converging. And we’re even seeing it with the big summer scripts that are selling they in the summer market, they haven’t completely broken the form. But they are pushing it so much. It is like at the breaking point. And the features that I see sell to Hulu and Netflix and Amazon, they are more like TV in that there’s something unique with the character of the story, there’s enough there’s like only that writer could have written it, it does not feel generic. And there’s something that’s just, if it’s your cup of tea, it’s going to really matter to you, and you’re going to watch this thing. And that’s how the whole industry change. Like it’s the industry 3.0. And so much of what people have been trained and told to do is now outdated.
Ashley
And I wonder, given sort of what you just said, and I’ve often wondered this, where do you think the direction of features is? Like, if you really boil down what you just said, why does Netflix even bother with features? Because they get they want this sort of stickiness? They want the people to return and features a two-hour contained movie is not I mean, I guess if you could do something like, you know, Monday night, ABC used to have Monday Night at the Movies. So maybe you could do something like that.
Corey
But here’s the thing is that, I get the question, but in this new world order, what they are looking for is that my platform has value to you. So, you’ll pay this monthly subscription. And this is what I believe is happening. And I hear it from people in the industry. And I think this is sort of the new trend within the trend, which is so it wasn’t that long ago, that being able to binge watch something was a unique experience. And people were happy to pay these monthly subscription fees to have shows that they can binge. Also, it wasn’t that long ago, that suddenly the ecosystem included, you know shows like fleabag and Russian doll and succession like all these new kinds of unique shows and characters that never existed. And that was a time when there wasn’t that many streaming platforms. So, if someone had a subscription to Netflix, or they had a subscription to Hulu, they would probably just keep it I think what’s happened is there’s a million streaming services and more coming all the time. They’re all spending enormous amounts of money because they’re trapped into doing that, given their business models. I think the novelty of all these unique, amazing shows is starting to wear off not that we don’t want to keep watching them. But the novelty has worn off, I think the experience of binge watching something the novelty of that has worn off. So, I actually think that creating a feature film experience that you can get at home is now a unique novelty, it’s sort of a newer add on. Also, if you are watching, All Quiet on the rest of the front on Netflix, and they are promoting a Coen Brothers movie or some movie that’s going to be dropping in two or three weeks, you’re like, oh, I really want to see that movie you’re keeping your subscription to Netflix, that’s all they care about is that you keep your subscription to Netflix because you see the value in doing. So, I think that they’re aggressively moving into the streaming film section. Because it’s sort of a more of a unique experience. And it helps give value my former assistant rather wrote the film Palm Springs that Hulu dropped during the pandemic. And that got them on the map people were talking not that they weren’t on the map already, but that got them a lot of subscribers. So that’s what the whole thing is about.
Ashley
Yeah, yeah. So, and again, I really get what you’re saying about these numbers with the series, there are 8 episodes, 10 episodes, it’s very easy for them to track you know, the stickiness of how many people are getting to that eighth episode, whereas with features the example you just gave, you know, they show a Coen Brothers esque movie and advertise the next Coen Brothers movie that’s going to be much more difficult to track.
Corey
But they’re going to know how many people watched it.
Ashley
No, for sure but the stickiness does not I go on Netflix sometimes and I just find something to watch. It’s not necessarily the same thing anyways though, I guess, I just take a step back and I do worry that features may become sort of a lost art. Like I think that there’s a chance that that because of the just exactly the same the financial pressures make features, sort of a lost art, but perhaps that’s many, many years in the future.
Corey
But by the way, it’s just a real quick jump in. I mean, we’re seeing record attendance in theatres right now.
Ashley
Yeah, no. Okay. So, you’re right. So, I think that will always be an experience. But that’s the big studio movies. And we’ve seen that now for 20 years with the studios, but they’re going more for the 10 poles. So, we’re not seeing those 20 million, 40 million.
Corey
Yeah, what I was, but what I would say is least the way I see it is good news, which is you’re absolutely right, for a lot of reasons we don’t need to get into and I’m sure you know quite in great detail that it bifurcated. And so, it was the right now there’s two feature markets, there’s the big tentpole movie market, and then there’s the load up on the stars and chase the awards. And then that middle market has basically disappeared. But that middle market now exists in the streaming. And that’s part of the reason I’m doing it because there’s an audience for that there’s always been an audience for that. It’s not an exciting audience for a major exhibitor chain. It’s an exciting audience for Hulu. So, I actually think the good news is that the streaming platforms are going to be where those middle movies now exist. So that means writers can write those movies.
Ashley
Yeah, you know, hopefully, you’re right. I do hope you’re right. So, taking this a step back with the with screenwriters, how they should sort of approach this, you know, one of the things that I feel like when I watch some of these, especially when you watch those, you know, eight episodes or six episodes, a limited series, I often think you know, this really should have just been a feature film, it wasn’t really enough. So as a writer, how do you make those determinations, you’ve got an idea that you feel is pretty expansive. But how do you know is that is it a two hour a 90-minute idea? Or is it something that you really can stretch out to 6 or 8 or 12 Episodes?
Corey
That’s a great question. And I actually think a big mistake that I see in a lot of the managers who sent me writers complain about is that there are a lot of writers who have their feature writers or they have Feature Ideas, but they decide, I got to do this as a TV show, because it’s easier to sell it that way, which is not as true as it used to be. But that aside, look, here’s what I would say. Again, it used to be that there were two or three forms, that you had to plug all your ideas and there was the 30-minute comedy, the 60-minute drama and the feature. And whatever you want it to say, you had to put it into one of those holes. And now everything’s different, and I think is the best time to be a writer. Because whatever it is, you want to say you get to pick the form that best serves what you want the experience you want us to have, if it’s four episodes and done, you can do that, if it’s eight episodes. And done, you can do that, if it’s seven years of 25 episodes, you can do that. It could be 30 minutes and be dramatic, it could be 60 minutes, be comedic. So, what I always tell writers is, if you, especially if you have a feature background, and you want to get into the TV market, a I would say do it for the right reasons and not the wrong reasons. Don’t do it because you’ve heard, it’s so much easier, there’s so much money, there’s so much more being sold. That was true three years ago, there’s still more action in TV than features. But features is catching up. And there’s so much competition in TV, and there’s still not as much competition in features. If you’re just making a business decision. It’s not so clear cut anymore. So, I would tell someone, if you’re doing a TV shows, it’s got to be because you want to be doing a TV show. And then I would say when I work with a writer, you know, one of the questions I’ll say, I hear some ideas you hear, and when you work with the writers, this is clearly a TV show, it’s expansive, it has all these different, you can’t do this as a feature, great. But it’s not uncommon that I’ll hear an idea. And I’ll be like, this could be a feature, then I always ask them, why isn’t this a feature? Why aren’t you doing this as a feature? And they need to have a good answer. And well, I want to do as a TV show is not a good answer. So, I would I would ask a writer is, if your idea could be done as a feature, it’s probably not a TV show. So, you need a reason why this can’t be done as a feature why it can’t be done in a self-contained intensive 100-minute experience. And if you don’t have a good answer for that, guess what? You have a feature.
Ashley
Yeah, I think that’s an excellent answer to that question. So, let’s get back up you had mentioned to you think there’s some misinformation about still out there about how to sell scripts and kind of break into the market. So, what is your basic template for somebody if they just they arrive in Hollywood maybe they’ve written a few scripts, but given the year 2020 to everything that’s changed. What do you think I know your sort of start was as an assistant, you started working in the business and sort of network that way. You know, Tik Tok, I’ve been messing my kids are on tick tock and I’m frankly very impressed and I think there’s a lot of potential for writers on stuff like Tik Tok, YouTube. You know, my own path. I’m out here making indie films myself writing, directing, producing into films, that’s a potentially a viable option. But what do you tell people writing specs? You know, that’s another option, just writing specs and just hitting the pavement sending it to agents and managers hoping you get some traction that way. But what do you tell people these days? What is sort of the template for breaking in?
Corey
So, I think the templates never changed. So, what I would say is, the standard way is you learn and confirm that you are writing scripts that are at the industry standard, are unique and impactful. And that then Question two is how do you get people to read those scripts and sending it out with query letters to agencies or managers is, so seven years ago, that’s not what you want to be doing. But putting that aside, it’s writing those scripts. Here’s what happens. There’s the shortcut. So, if you go back in time there, the first couple of people that started doing webisodes taking stories and putting them online, they got all these views, it got the industry’s attention. And the industry is like, wow, look at what they were able to accomplish on this limited medium. Let’s bring them in and meet with these people. And some of them got really big writer director deals. And then everyone’s like, that’s what I’m doing. I’m going to create webisodes and breaking the business and no one else did. Because it was only those first early movers, it was the first people to do it, they got all the attraction. They I mean, they got all the eyeballs, and then everyone started doing it. And it was not a shortcut anymore podcast. You know, when podcast started, you know that some of the early people who were doing podcasts who had some interesting got and have huge followings, because they were the first one in the space. And again, the industry started to pay attention to that look at what they’ve been able to do just talking to people, I wonder if this could be a TV show, or this could be a movie, I wonder if we can hire this person. And there were six or seven writers that broke in that way. And then everyone I knew was like, I’m going to start a podcast and break in that way. And none of them broke in that way. Because you got it with these technologies, if you’re one of the first people in there and you can create a buzz great, so Tik Tok, maybe right now there are going to be some people who are going to get some traction off the Tik Tok, and then everyone’s going to hear about it, and everyone’s going to go on Tik Tok, and that’s not going to work anymore. So, my suggestion is, you focus on the scripts. Now, if you want to spend 20% of your time trying to get your voice and an audience in Tik Tok, or podcasting or whatever form you want to do. Great. That is a shortcut. And that might work, it probably won’t, but it might. But spend 80% of your time focused on writing the sample scripts that could launch your career, and then figure out how to get people to read those scripts. Because that is how 98% of writers are going to break into business. That’s the classic traditional way. Also, here’s the thing, someone’s on tick tock, and they are really great at promoting themselves, they get some attention, and they get some meetings around town, I see this all the time, if they don’t have an absolutely exceptional writing sample or two, it isn’t going to matter. And I deal, I get those writers sign up for my workshops all the time. So, if you want to be just like you, you know, your writer, director, if someone came to you, they’re like, I want to be a director, direct something and prove that you have value. And if someone’s like, oh, I want to be a writer, the really cool thing is, you don’t need any money. You don’t need actors, you don’t need equipment, you need to write some scripts that blow people away. That’s the reality. And so too many people come to LA. And they get all excited about promotion, and all these, like ways they can get their message are there. But it isn’t going to matter if you don’t have the goods.
Ashley
Yeah, yeah, for sure. But just take a step back. And let’s reframe it a little bit in the sense that in some ways, I now see these people on YouTube and Tik Tok they’re not even necessarily trying to break into Hollywood, they’re just creating a platform for writing and stuff. I had a producer on a couple of weeks ago that had worked with the Dude Perfect guys, I think those guys are probably worth $100 million dollars, Mr. Beast is probably worth hundreds of millions of dollars. So, it’s not even necessarily a platform to break in. It’s a platform in and of itself. You can do creative writing, and potentially make a living. I know going through these independent films, one of the things I run into as I’m doing them as editors, you know, there’s millions of editors now in Hollywood that are pumping out all of this content for all these Tik Tokers and YouTubers. So, you know, there has to be people also writing that sort of stuff. You know, just that’s the end.
Corey
But the examples you gave in YouTube, those people you know, they have unique, crazy content that’s connecting with people and they started earlier on when it was easier to get attention. I’m not saying those examples.
Ashley
Dhar Mann is one… but he wasn’t an early adopter. I think he’s really been the last three years he’s taken off.
Corey
Oh, absolutely. But here’s the thing. And I’m not trying to, like, encourage or discourage anyone to do anything. So, first off my focus and, you know, the writers I work with, they want to be TV writers and feature writers. So, this is something different. But yeah, I mean, if someone wants to be a content creator and want to use a platform, like YouTube and monetize it, absolutely, that can happen. I would say, for every example you give me, of someone who’s making significant money doing that, in the last three to five years, I could give you 5 million examples of people who try it and aren’t making that amount of money. It’s not to say that someone who’s listening to this doesn’t have something really unique and they start throwing it up on YouTube, and it catches fire, and they become really awesome. And once again, it kind of goes to this whole thing about streaming and how streaming changed everything. But my expertise is working with writers who want to be TV writers and feature writers. So, and I certainly can’t give intelligent advice that someone wants to be the next major YouTube.
Ashley
Yeah, yeah. So, and that’s the question, though, ultimately, if you’re just a young person that wants to be creative and do creative writing, and exactly, it’s not really my expertise, either. But I suspect in this in the year 2022, it’s easier to make a living as a YouTube content creator than it would be as a screenwriter breaking in and becoming a screenwriter. And so again…
Corey
I don’t know that I would agree. I mean, I know a lot of people who’ve been playing the YouTube thing, and I think it’s not necessarily as lucrative as people think, if you really look at like, what it takes and what the kind of I mean, you could be absolutely right. But I don’t know. I mean, I’ve had in the past five years over 2500, my writers launch writing careers, they get paid, they have insurance, they have pensions, they’re making good money. I don’t think there’s 2500. And that’s just me, I’m just one teacher. Yeah, I don’t know, I mean, given the amount of money on content, but I certainly don’t want to give the message to your listeners, that is easy.
Ashley
This is easy to do anything creative, and get paid for it is never good.
Corey
I actually, I think if 100 people said, I’m going to make money as a YouTube content creator. And they just went all out for five years to do that. And they are really smart and really talented and 100 people have the same attitude towards breaking into TV or feature film business. I think you’re going to see a much higher percentage in the second group than the first group. But maybe in the first group, the two or three people who really, really nail it. They might make enormous amounts of money. I don’t know. Yeah, but I think I don’t…
Ashley
What always amazes me obviously the Dude Perfect guys are famous, you know, Dhar Mann, there’s some … Those are, those are the type of things but I know a lot of guys that are making $50,000 a year on YouTube making $80,000 a year on YouTube. There’s just tons of those people out there. Yeah, well, we don’t hear about them because they’re not that famous, but they are, you know, scraping out of living doing creative work. And I don’t know, I mean, you’d exam 100 people trying to be screeners, 100 people things. I bet if you had 100 people that really want to be content creators on a Tik Tok are things you know, I bet you could get as high as 50 You’re going to be lucky if you get 10 of those screenwriters in five years making a living screenwriting. I think again, but what do we know we’re, again, we are getting out of our seats.
Corey
It’s a great time to be a young person, because you got a lot of options. I think my advice would be, just figure out what kind of life you want. And figure out what you want to be producing, figure out what you like, if you think Avenue A is easier. And more likely, but Avenue B is what I really want to be doing. My advice is, spend three years all in on Avenue B. And if it doesn’t work out, you can reassess and always go back to the other option. But I just think my advice to writers and I wish I took this because I didn’t do it this way. But just step back, figure out what kind of life you want. Figure out what creativity means to you, what you want to be producing. What is going to be the most meaningful to you. And then just figure out what it takes to be successful and go for it. And then give yourself a fair amount of time. And if it’s not working out. Absolutely. You can always shift focus.
Ashley
Yeah, sound advice for sure. One of the things I heard about a couple of weeks ago, one of the big TV fellowships, I think it was the Warner Brothers, but don’t quote me on that it got cancelled, and then it got reinstated. And one of the things that occurred to me is and I’m just curious, have you heard anything or things? Well, one of the things that occurs to me is if they’re starting to cancel something, even though they reinstated it, clearly they don’t look at it as a valuable resource. As for harvesting, or finding new writers, it’s clearly sort of on their back burner. And it seemed more like they just got pressured into putting it back. Do you get any sense on that is because that’s always been a big way of breaking into television is getting, you know, by getting highly placed on these fellowships. What’s your take on that in the year 2022?
Corey
I think that those are still viable options. I think it means less than it used to. And again, I hate to sound too broken record, but it’s because a lot of the fellowships were built and created in a world of paradigm driven TV. And that is not of interest. And so I think a lot of the so I get people coming to me to work with me. And there, they get upset because they’re like, look, I went through this program, or I paid all this money for this. And now I’m realizing that what I was taught is wrong. And I wasted all this time and money. And it’s like, no, wait, wait, wait. It wasn’t wrong. What you were taught was right, for that world. But the world changed dramatically, and big institutions can’t change that quickly. And so, I think that a lot of the MFA programs and a lot of the fellowship, they are training writers how to win an award that ended five years ago. And so I think there’s going to be so that is, I think, what’s happening that said, I mean, I know two writers that just went through the fellowship and got staff. So, it’s certainly I think, if anyone’s chasing the fellowships, and they can get in, they should feel excited, it’s still it may not be the Golden Ticket that it once was, but it’s at least a silver ticket and a Silver Ticket doesn’t suck. So, it’s not a bad thing. But I think everything you’re talking about a reflection of the world changed, because of broadband and streaming, it changed everything. And the reality is, we had the same business model for 70 years. And now it got disrupted and destroyed. And the new business model is really in its infancy. And so, we’re really very, very early on in the entertainment industry, like 3.0. And that’s something that a lot of people don’t realize is that again, everything’s different. And you really have to understand what’s going on today, why it’s going on, and what you need to do to give yourself the best chance.
Ashley
Okay, I’m going to throw you a curveball question here. Are you at all into crypto and NFT’s? Do you have any thoughts on sort of the future of how those are going to merge with films?
Corey
No, I guess I had people telling me all the time, not your expertise. And I’m sure like, you know, 10 years from now, I’d be like, darn it, I should put all my money into blah, blah, blah, but I mean, I know what it is, but not really up to speed on it.
Ashley
Yeah, yeah. And that’s where I’m asking people as they come on the podcast, if anybody has, because I do think that there is potentially exactly what you’re saying 10 years down the road, there is going to be something so I’m trying to get ahead of the curve on that.
Corey
What you do, you let me know.
Ashley
Exactly. So, I’d like to wrap up these interviews by asking the guests is there anything you’ve seen recently that you really could recommend to our screenwriting audience? Netflix, Hulu, HBO, anything that’s out there that people can find?
Corey
I’ll give two recommendations. One recommendation I thought was really interesting was The Bear. Have you seen that on?
Ashley
No, I haven’t.
Corey
So, here’s what I think is really interesting about the Bear is it kind of goes back to what we were talking about. So, for the longest time, we had three camera comedies, situational comedies, it’s a single location three cameras, and it’s just really played for the jokes and, and that is really like a dinosaur. Now it’s gone away. And that’s not people want authenticity, they want characters. So, the bear is a 30-minute show on Hulu. And it’s structured a lot like a three camera comedy, and it’s not a broad comedy. And it isn’t, it’s mostly in a single location in a workplace. It’s a short order kitchen, but they do sometimes go home with character so it’s not. But it’s mostly feels like a traditional three camera comedy, but it’s not a comedy. It is a really intimate character story. There’s some comedy in it, but it’s a drama or drama. It was really great characters, and it’s all about family and family dynamics and emotions. And it’s just really captivating. And also what if someone looks at it, here’s what’s I think kind of interesting is so the concept is a guy’s brother dies and he’s a chef, but he goes to take over the family, short order cook diner, and you know, if someone came in and pitched me that I’d be like…
Ashley
Okay, it’s not high concept.
Corey
It’s not a high concept. And that’s the point is though, that it but the acting and the writing is amazing the storytelling, and it’s really a very honest look at human emotion and human relationships and how messy they are. And there is a little bit of comedy in it, but it’s really intense, and it’s so well written. And that’s the point, which is, nobody’s watching the Bear, because they’re like, What a great concept. But people, if they find it, or it’s recommended to them, and they start watching it, they get a unique emotional experience. Here’s the thing about the Bear. And not everyone that is listening might be their cup of tea. But here’s the if it is your cup of tea, it’s like Fleabag. It’s like Atlanta in that it won’t remind you of anything else. And you can’t get that experience anywhere else. That’s the key. And I’ll throw one other thing out, which is there’s a TV show, it’s a German TV show, but it’s on Netflix called Babylon Berlin. And given what’s going on in the world, it’s unfortunately kind of irrelevant. The basic idea of a TV show was nobody’s born and Nazi people become Nazis. So, it sat in Berlin in the late 1920s, the jazz that the hedonism, but we know what they don’t know, which is the Nazis are going to be taken over within like, two years. And the show follows these characters. It’s a thriller, it’s a mystery. It’s a love story. It’s epic. But the fun thing is, when you’re watching it, you know, some of these characters are going to become Nazis, and some aren’t. And you’re trying to figure out who’s going to become a Nazi. And the reason I throw it out is the fourth year is going to be dropping really soon, on Netflix, and I wasn’t a big fan of the third year, but I think the first two years are great. So, if anyone’s looking for something, and you’re in this idea of like, Berlin in the 1920s, moving into the Nazis, it’s a really interesting show. It’s a love story. It’s a thriller. I don’t own stock in the show. But I think it’s an interesting show. So those are two shows. The Bear on Hulu, and Babylon Berlin, if you’re looking. And here’s the thing I say about both shows, if you watch the first episode of either show, and you’re not totally into it, stop watching. These are shows that like after one episode, you know what you’re getting in, you know if this show is for you, or the show isn’t for you not for you.
Ashley
Perfect. Yeah, those are great recommendations. So, let’s talk about your workshops. Just quickly. What do you have coming up? And how can people find them?
Corey
Yeah, thanks. So, I teach the Professional Screenwriting TV writing workshop. And it teaches the specific skill sets to write the kind of scripts most in demand and the current marketplace, you can find out more about it at CoreyMandell.net. The only thing is you have to have some patience, because these things sell out. We are getting a lot of showrunners sending us their entire writing staffs. We’re getting a lot of agents and managers sending us writers. So, we have three, three workshops starting in January, two of them sold out, one of them is about to sell out. By the time this drops, it probably will be sold out. But we’ll announce the march one. So, you do have to maybe wait three to six months to get in. But if you’re interested go to the website, Coreymandell.net, there’s a lot of information, what we teach is different from what anyone else teaches might not be a good fit for you might be a good fit for you. You can check it out. And then if you want to do it, we can let you know when the next available session is but unfortunately, people complain all the time, but it usually is about a six month wait to get him.
Ashley
Perfect. Perfect. So yeah, CoryMandell.net. I’ll put that in the show notes. And what’s the best way for people to keep up with what else you’re doing; Twitter, Facebook, are you on any of those platforms?
Corey
I’m pretty old fashioned. Just go to CoreyMandell.net, or sign up for the newsletter and we’ll keep you abreast of everything that’s going on.
Ashley
Perfect. Perfect. Well, Cory, I really appreciate you coming on talking to me today. Interesting conversations, as always.
Corey
Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it and it was a lot of fun.
Ashley
Thank you. We’ll talk to you later. Take care. Bye.
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