This is a transcript of SYS 499 – Lessons From Clive Barker and Making Horror Movies With Anthony DiBlasi. .
Welcome to Episode 499 of the Selling Your Screenplay Podcast. I’m Ashley Scott Meyers, screenwriter and blogger over at sellingyourscreenplay.com. Today I’m interviewing writer director Anthony DeBlasi who just did a horror film called Mallam, which is based on another film he did a few years ago. So, we talked through all of that, the original film and then how he was able to remake it into a larger production. He got his start working for Clive Barker years ago and eventually was able to work his way up to directing. So, we talked through that transition a little bit as well. So, stay tuned for that interview.
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So, just a quick few words about what I’ve been working on. Obviously, the contest and the film festival have been keeping me very busy lately. By the time this episode airs, the festival schedule and website should be live. So please do check those out. It’s just www.sixfigurefilmfestival.com, no spaces all lowercase, just sixfigurefilmfestival.com. And if you’re going to be in Los Angeles, October 6th to October 8th, definitely consider checking it out. We’re in the Look dine in cinema this year in Glendale. It’s a fantastic venue. So, I’m just really excited to show all the films there. I’m going to try and highlight some of the films over the next few weeks with some short interviews from the filmmakers, so stay tuned for that. One of the films I’m trying to show is a horror film called Murder Van. It was actually on our annual budget list where a producer Chad Ritchie who was actually also been on the podcast, he found it, option to ultimately produced it. So, I’m hoping to have her on and just talk about her that experience getting it on the budget list. And then ultimately getting it produced. They I think they shot and COVID. So, they had a good number of delays. And it’s been going on for a while. But hopefully the film is going to be done in time to show they’re still in post production trying to get the thing completed. But I’m hoping to show that one. So again, stay tuned for that. And we’ve got a couple of other features. Again, I’m going to try and show some of these films or highlight some of these films on the podcast, have those filmmakers on as well. And obviously, there’s a whole bunch of short films that we’ll be showing this year as well. I think there’s about 20 films all total, I think there’s going to be three features. So that’s like about maybe 15 or 16 shorts. So again, please do check out the website, if you’re in the Los Angeles area have any interest in attending the festival. Again, that’s www.sixfigurefilmfestival.com. And that number six is spelled out SIXfigurefilmfestival.com. So hopefully I’ll see everybody there. Those are the things I’ve been working on. Now. Let’s get into the main segment. Today I’m interviewing writer director Anthony DeBlasi. Here is the interview.
Ashley
Welcome, Anthony to the Selling Your Screenplay Podcast. I really appreciate you coming on the show with me today.
Anthony DeBlasi
Thanks for having me.
Ashley
So, to start out, maybe tell us a little bit about your background. Where do you grow up? And how did you get interested in the entertainment business?
Anthony DeBlasi
Well, I’m from Boston from Massachusetts originally. You know, my dad is a big movie buff. You know, he drove a taxi in Boston in his early years, and he will always hang out in the theater district and my dad is in his 90s now, so that was a generation where film was actually big in Boston. You know, so I grew up with the love of movies and kind of watching Universal Monsters very early age and things like that. So, I was big on makeup effects. I loved how a creatures got made. And I always thought like, maybe that’s something I’d like to pursue. And then I went to film school, went to Emerson, in Boston and kind of morphed into writing and directing more and then moved to LA, finished my last semester in LA, and was able to intern at Marvel for bit. This is right around when they finished the Tobey Maguire Spider Man and I had a lot of free time on my hands. So, I started reaching out as the; hey, I’m interested in effects and monsters and horror movies and was able to intern with Clive Barker. And then quickly started working for his company, and really delved into that world for next 10 years developing and producing.
Ashley
Yeah. And I wonder if I can just touch it. I can touch on a couple things right there. I know, there’s always a lot of people trying to just break in that first entertainment job. Maybe you can speak to that a little bit. How did you get that first job with Clive Barker? Was it just cold submission? Did you have you been interning so you knew a few people, just maybe a couple tips on for people? How did you get in with him?
Anthony DeBlasi
I think you know, listen to everyone’s path is going to be different. I know connections to entertainment in Boston, I went to Emerson. And you know, that’s an investment, for sure. I went to Emerson, mainly because they had a program for Los Angeles. So, you could go to Emerson College, and then finish your last. You could either do it your junior year or your senior year. And I was like, well, that’s my in to LA is very strategically I was like, that makes sense to me. So, I got into Emerson and did the film program and then waited till my last semester, my senior year, and then well, I’m just going to go do the LA program that’s once, half, that’s one semester in LA, and I’m just going to stay. And when you’re in that program, you have to get an internship, or they send you home. You know, they don’t help you get an internship. I mean, you’re on your own, you’re the advisors… What’s great is that your advisor, you really have to I, when you’re in an opportunity like that, like I took advantage of that advisor I had. So, they helped facilitate to make sure you’re not **** up to bad, right? Well, you have to land if you go on the interviews, you have to land those internships yourself. And I think it was me knowing like; Hey, I was only taking one class, because I couldn’t have done most of my credits again, strategically. So, I’d have more time in LA and landed the Marvel internship, which was not a ton going on. It was me making mainly like doing Photoshop. I mean, obviously, Rod was there and Kevin Feige was there. So, I get to meet them and work with them in some capacity, but I was like, you know, I have a lot more free time on my hands. And that’s when I say I call my advisor, I’m like; Hey, I love horror. Is there anything in horror? And she’s like, well, there’s Clive Barker. There’s John Carpenter, there’s Wes Craven. And Clive, one of his development partners was a man named Joe Daly. And he was from Massachusetts. And he had gone to Emerson for like a semester and then transferred to NYU. But that was enough to strike a common ground with you know, fellow Masshole. And you know, you have to be kind of strategic about like, what is just anything the foot in the door is going to get me so hounding him for a while say, hey, you know, I love horror. Got along with Joe. He’s like, you know, what, why don’t you come up to the house and meet Clive. And that’s all when I met Clive, we just had a lot in common. And I think what’s important is, I think if you get an opportunity where you’re around professionals, at least in my case, I wasn’t going in starstruck or anything. You had to go in educated. You got to go like, what are these people? What are their likes? Do I have common ground with them? You know, don’t just come in. And when I met Clive, I had never read any of his books. I was a fan of his movies, Hellraiser and Candyman and nightbreed but I had never read any of his novels. So, I think we just had a common ground we both loved comic books, we both love games, you know, so it’s just that, that was my in and when you’re there, you just have to make the most out of it. You have to go that extra mile you know, I started you just have to make yourself as useful as possible. And I had written in college, but I don’t think I’ve ever completed a whole screenplay. By the time I graduated, it was seen and when you’re writing, when you’re young like that, it seems like oh my god, like 100 120 pages. That’s a lot. So, I took one a Clive’s novels called the Thief of Always, one of my favorite events because when I got there, I just started reading everything is good, just consuming all of his books. And the Thief of Always, I love it was more of a young adult, novel and you know, he’d always complained, like, no one ever adapted it properly. So, I was like, You know what, I’m just going to in my, you know, a night when I get home, I’m just going to start adapting Thief of Always as faithfully as I could to the book, you know, I’m like I got the book, got my computer and I just transcribe that son of a bitch, like 120 Page screenplay. And that was the first one I was like; oh, it’s not as hard as I thought it was, you know, and he read it and he’s like, this is great. And then later on, we ended up kind of setting it up at Fox for some time. So, I think it’s like looking for those opportunities where you can create, you create those opportunities yourself, really. So that was…
Ashley
So just again, just real quick touch on that, you know, there’s always that moment where you’re sort of the low man on the totem pole. But how do you let the people ahead of you know, without being pushy, or overstepping your bounds that hey, yes, I’m a PA now, but I’m really looking to write and direct. Do you just tell people casually? And then once you had written this script, like, how did you approach Clive; hey, by the way, you adapted one of your books in my spare time, here’s the script. How do you sort of broach that and go from being a PA to someone that they actually see as a writer?
Anthony DeBlasi
Well, I think first you got to find that common ground with the people you’re working with. I got along really well, with Joe Daly, and Clive. And I, again, you just have to make yourself as helpful as possible, right? If you’re working underneath people, you just have to make their jobs easier. You know, you have to show your value. I was very knowledgeable of horror. Were like, five, and Joe, they didn’t have time to watch all these movies and stuff. And that’s what I did. I already had watched so many horror movies, and I was watching more, I was the youngest one in the company. So, I’m of a different generation. And I was just consuming just I was making myself as knowledgeable as possible. And when I adapted the book, I didn’t even ask, I didn’t do any. I mean, I just did it. I just said, I’m just going to do this, and then hand it to him and say, you know what, I that’s exactly what I did. I was like; Yeah, I adapted this in my spare time, will you take a look at it?
Ashley
Nice. So, let’s dig into your latest film, Mallam, maybe you start out and give us a quick pitch or logline, what is this film all about?
Anthony DeBlasi
Well, so you we’ve talked briefly off camera about Last Shift. So, this is actually a reimagining of, of a movie I made in 2014, called Last Shift. And it’s about a rookie police officer who is in decommissioned police station on the first shift, her first shift and the last shift of the station because they’re about to tear down. And she’s there to kind of uncover the mystery of her father’s death, who was also a police officer. And unbeknownst to her, it’s all very tangled with this pseudo demonic cult that had to do with the mystery with their father, and she’s there to uncover it, and she gets more than she bargained for along the night.
Ashley
So why do a reimagining of something you did in 2014? What were sort of the pieces that motivated you to go and do this?
Anthony DeBlasi
We did the first one for a very small budget. It was exactly the movie we wanted to make. We wrote it very, again, strategically, almost like a science experiment out how many days it was a by that time, I had directed several movies, I kind of knew my Page to Screen count. You know, the first movie I directed was called Dread and it was one of Clive Barker’s short stories that I adapted, there’s about 100- and 120-page script, and my first cut of the movie was over three hours. And I said; Man, that’s a lot of wasted money. A lot of wasted stuff that I got to cut out. So, kind of really home that page count through a few years. And by the time we get to last shift, we shot a 69-page script. And because it was horrid, I know the timing, you know, we that’s how we save money. That’s how we were able to be like, okay, we have a tiny budget, but how do we make the most out of it? It’s because we got a 69-page script, and it ended up being a 90-minute movie. When the welcome Bill and guys kind of approached me, you know, Last Shift did pretty well for an indie release and Magnolia released it. It didn’t do any kind of theatrical, it was all streaming and it went to Netflix or, you know, it got a fan base and they were like, ‘We love that movie. What do you think about revisiting this world?’ And we really wanted to bring it to a wider audience. But it’s a much different film. I think that’s what was important. We’re doing it for a bigger budget. We’re aiming for a wider audience kind of taking a few of the things from the first movie that worked really well, bringing it into this film, but giving viewers a kind of totally different experience.
Ashley
So, let’s talk about your writing process. And it sounds like this one’s probably pretty unique. But what is your collaboration like with Scott Poley? I noticed he’s worked with you on a couple other films, but just walk through that a little bit. Are you guys in the same room? Do you divide up scenes? Did you look at this other script and sort of, as you say, pull some scenes from there or something from there. But just walk through your writing process on this one? How did you and Scott work and get the script produced?
Anthony DeBlasi
On the first film, he is from Orlando, Florida, and we shot the first film in Orlando. So, on that film, I went down there, and we wrote together also scattered the location before and while we were writing, so it was very strategic about the location we found. This one he was in Florida, I was in LA, and we would Zoom, and we would write that way. I am very much focused, because I know I’m directing it, I’m very much focused on the scares and the structure. And we have a relatively short window to write it in because it was basically an assignment writing because like; hey, we want to do this reimagining. We did a treatment. And then we were like; okay, go. Because we want to head to production in the summer, if everything works out. So, we had a relatively short timeline. So, Scott was handling a lot of the dialogue, I was handling a lot of scares in the structure. And that’s how we at least did our first draft. And then it was just honing that and kind of saying, like, then we would kind of write together more on a daily basis of let’s tweak this scene and that.
Ashley
And what does that actually mean? He’s writing more dialogue character, that sort of stuff. Would he write a scene and then send it to you? And then you would put in some scares, try and structure it into the overall story? What does that actually look like? Just practically speaking.
Anthony DeBlasi
I think it’s become important to me over the years, they have a really thorough treatment. So, the treatment, I did a lot of heavy lifting on the treatment was about a 22-page treatment. And Scott and I collaborated a lot on that. So, once we have the blueprint, we would talk and I’d be like, okay, we rewriting at the same time. And I’d say; alright, Scott, you know what needs to happen here. And I’d be like, what this is what’s not on the treatment that I want to happen to direct, right? This is what I want from this conversation. So, he’d literally go off and write all the dialogue for that scene with these notes. Like almost as a director, I’m giving him notes as a writer, and I’m like, okay, this is what I want to accomplish for the audience. And then in the meantime, I’m filling in the gaps of writing, I’m setting up the scares, you know, there’s in a horror movie, there’s a lot of scenes with no dialogue at all. So that would be and then he would send me the dialogue I’d incorporated into the draft. And we did that for a lot of the process. I think we did our first draft in about three weeks.
Ashley
And that was after having the treatment already written?
Anthony DeBlasi
Yeah, yeah.
Ashley
And how long did you guys spend on the treatment?
Anthony DeBlasi
Probably a couple months, you know, we kind of vomited out like a six-page treatment because we were adapting something from the first movie. And we didn’t really look at that first movie very much. We read the script again once and kind of like, okay, what did we leave on the table when we made that first script? Let’s take some notes from it. I was also sharing stuff with the welcome villain team, which I probably wouldn’t rave. I wouldn’t usually do but because they were such horror fanatics, and they were such big fans of the first movie. I wanted them to see every step of the way, like, okay, here’s six pages of nonsense. It’s like, kind of like the first movie, but different. It was junk, right? Because also for me, I was like, we had to find our way into the story. We didn’t know quite yet. And then it was like, okay, here’s 10 pages, here’s 12 pages. And then by that point, I’m like, Scott, I started to get excited about; alright, we know where we’re taking this. We know how we’re changing it. And the main thing for us was the character motivations. The first movie is very much a person in the wrong place at the wrong time. This movie, the lead character has a mission from page one. And it just completely changes the landscape of the narrative when you kind of made that decision.
Ashley
What did the notes look like? So, this company, they’ve already greenlit and basically said, we’re going to fund this, they’ve hired you to write the script, then you’re sending them these fragments of the script, what sort of notes to you back that was, as a writer that would really concern me to show them something that was sort of half baked, because obviously they’re going to be might get a little worried like, Gee, what is this?
Anthony DeBlasi
Yeah, I think I trusted them enough in their taste enough to … I was trying to gauge I think Scott and I were really trying to gauge how different do they want it from the first movie or how similar. So that’s why early on, when I’m like, okay, I really want to do a scene like this, I want to keep this scene but changed a little, let’s throw that in the treatment like we want to, this is going to be her broad strokes through. And because I wanted to know. I didn’t want to finish the script and be like, oh, this isn’t what we were expecting. Because I already knew they were going to make the movie. So, I wanted to make sure we were on the same page every step of the way. So those early treatments, it was like here, what do you think they’re like, oh, yeah, this is the right direction, right? Those are like, oh, yeah, I’m glad you’re keeping that scare like, oh, I kind of missed that moment. Or like, that’s those things. It was the gauging of how different are we making it from the first movie?
Ashley
I’m curious, you mentioned that you were sort of as the director keeping an eye on the structure of the script. How do you approach screenplay structure? There’s sort of the Blake Snyder, Syd field, you know, template model that seems very rigid to some people with act breaks, inciting incidents and midpoints. How do you approach screenplay structure?
Anthony DeBlasi
You know, kind of a million different ways. And it’s always I think every script is different. I think in horror. Something Clive said to me very early on when he made Candy Man, and I’ve heard other screenwriters say this, like, a Kubrick said this too. When he made Candy Man, when they tested that movie, they they’re basically like, something scary has to happen every seven minutes. So, when you’re writing a horror screenplay, I’m always very conscious of the sequences, and I definitely write out of order, you know, I know there’s scenes I want, imagining in my mind, and I’ll write it down on a post that or something or keep track of it. And okay, these are some big set pieces, I think for horror, it’s a lot about set pieces too, and how you’re going to scare the audience. And that will all come together kind of slowly. I think that’s why the treatment process probably takes like two months is getting all the details like, how does the structure support that? I always want to make sure a plot is making sense like I don’t. And to give an example, and this is, like certain Halloween, like the reimagining of Halloween, right? The new one. You know, excellent filmmaker, David Green made that movie, but he hadn’t done a lot of horror. And I had wondered, if you watch that Halloween movie, you’ll see like the character of Michael Myers. He’ll just show up places with the main cast often times over and over again. Now that may be a byproduct has nothing to do with the script, and may be a byproduct of editing. But as I like, someone who loves horror, that drives me nuts, because I’m like, well, why is that happening? Why is he here? Why is? And I know, I think a lot of times, people kind of take that for granted when you’re playing to a horror audience, you’re like, well, I don’t have to do is scare them. Things don’t have to make sense. And I’m really a stickler for things making sense when I write.
Ashley
You mentioned too, this idea of a scare every seven pages or seven minutes. Are there some other genre requirements that similar to that, like, for instance, your protagonist is a female? Do you want a horror movie. Is there some you know, some distributors or some producers say yeah, we want a female protagonist, you’re a damsel in distress. Are there some other genre requirements that go along that are similar to this ever scare every seven minutes?
Anthony DeBlasi
I think that comes to personal taste, probably. I mean, I do think in general, horror films with a female protagonist tend to do better or tend to affect an audience more. And that’s not always the case. I mean, when I made Dread that had a male protagonist and a male antagonist, so it wasn’t, I think it’s every story is a little bit different. But I knew because we had already made a movie. We wanted to stick with certain parameters for this. But the welcome villain guys were very supportive and kind of like; well, what is your vision for this? What do you guys want to do? How do you want to scare people? And, you know, how do you want to shock people? I think we had talked about a couple of movies early on like that sinister, which I love. I think sinister is a really good mystery horror film. And then the Evil Dead remake was something that we really liked, and it’s how to handle scares and gore. And those were kind of two movies we talked about a lot while making Mallan.
Ashley
So, just as someone who’s really, really, really into the horror genre, can you give some sort of general tips to people that want to write in this genre? Are there things that you see writers do really well? And on the flip side of that, do you see there are things that you see writers not do so well in horror?
Anthony DeBlasi
I think, you know, probably horror and comedy are very similar in the sense that how do you make sure you’re scaring a reader? How are you setting that tone on the page? And I think it has to be less of a blueprint when you’re writing horror, you know, I think you have to find a rhythm on the page. That’s going to make someone reading it feel like oh, this is creeping me out. Why is this creeping me out kind of like … So almost in a sense, because I think I consumed so much a Clive’s content and because he was a novelist, I think reading horror novels is a good way to writing horror screenplays. Because a novelist, like King or Clive, they need to scare their reader on the page. That’s their whole objective. So, if you can scare your reader on the page, then you’re doing a good job. And I also think with horror, you just need to push the limits, you need to push boundaries. You need to attempt to give people something they haven’t seen before, but also hit familiar ground. You know, I mean, you want to make sure you’re scaring people if that’s your intention. There’s a lots of different kinds of horror movies, and I made horror movies that aren’t scary, intentionally. You know, a film I did extremity isn’t necessarily a scary movie. It’s a psychological movie. But it’s still horror, because there’s horrific things happening in it. So, once you know what kind of horror movie you want to make, you know, find like, okay, these are the beacons, right? This is my lighthouse. And then follow that path, watch those movies. So how did they scare people visually? And then read novels, because that’s going to that’s going to tell you how to really scare people on a page.
Ashley
Yeah, yeah, those are fantastic tips. So, I always like to just wrap up the interview by asking the guests as with anything they’ve seen recently, on HBO, Netflix, Hulu, that you think a mostly screenwriting audience could get some value out of watching just some really great writing out there.
Anthony DeBlasi
I mean, I would recommend Endor. I think Disney burned some bridges with some of their other Star Wars content and or was just fabulous. I thought it was such a well told story. And there’s another season coming up. I think that’s some of the best television I’ve seen in a long time. And not what you would expect from a Star Wars franchise.
Ashley
Perfect. That’s a great tip. How can people see Mallam? Do you know what the release schedule is going to be like for it?
Anthony DeBlasi
It came out on the 31st. So, it’s kind of doing a limited theatrical right now. And may open up to more theaters this week. So, you can see it in theaters now in the big cities, and then we’re doing streaming, which I’m not sure how to do. We’ll do hardcopy Blu-ray DVD streaming. I’m not sure on his release dates yet.
Ashley
Perfect, perfect. And what’s the best way for people to keep up with what you’re doing? Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, anything you’re comfortable sharing, I will round up and put in the show notes for people to click over.
Anthony DeBlasi
Hit me up on Instagram, mainly on which is An_deblasi. Anyone got any questions? I’ll get back to you on DM. Go ahead. I’m down to answer questions.
Ashley
Okay, gotcha, gotcha. That’s very generous. Well, perfect. Anthony, I really appreciate you coming on talking with me today. Good luck with this film and good luck, all your future films as well.
Anthony DeBlasi
Thank you. Thank you very much.
Ashley
Thank you. We’ll talk to you later.
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So next week, I’m still trying to arrange some of these interviews with the film festival filmmaker. So, I’m actually not exactly sure what episode will publish next week. But obviously, it’ll be interesting. Obviously, it’ll be about screenwriting. So definitely keep an eye out for next week. And as I said, if not next week, certainly by the following week, I’ll start to have some real short interviews from some of these filmmakers that are going to be attending the festival just to kind of give a little bit of exposure to them. And perhaps, you can find some films that you might find interesting and come out and check them out. Anyways, keep an eye out for that episode next week. That’s the show. Thank you for listening.