This is a transcript of SYS Podcast Episode 031: An Interview With Joey Tuccio From Stage 32 Happy Writers.
Welcome to episode 31 of the selling your screen play podcast. I’m Ashley Scott Meyer screen writer and blogger over at sellingyourscreenplay.com.
In this episodes main segment, Ill be interviewing Joey Tuccio who runs the Happy Writers. The Happy Writers offers an Online Pitching Service. So Joey has some great tips for screen writers on how to pitch, so stay tuned for that.
I’d like to thank this episode’s sponsor – Screen Craft. Screen Craft is dedicated to helping Screen Writers to master the craft of screen writing and succeed in the business of Hollywood. Sign up for free education inspiration at screencraft.org
If you find this episode valuable please help me out by giving me review in iTunes or leaving a comment on YouTube or re-tweeting the podcast on twitter or liking it on Facebook. These Social Media Shares really do help spread the podcast so it’s very much appreciated.
I’d like to thank Standford Crein and Bob Kili who left me some nice comments over on YouTube about Episode 29
I want to thank Marti Wolf, Cat Wood, Traci Neil, Screen Writing Process and Clint Williams who re-tweeted episode 30 on tweeter thank you for that.
Selling your screen play is on Facebook too at www.facebook.com/sellingyourscreenplay and I’d like to thank Bernadette Fresno and Diana Merdock who liked episode 28 on Facebook thank you for that.
And a big thank you to RL Brown who left me a very nice comment in iTunes thank you for that.
Couple of quick notes:
– Any websites or links that I mention in the podcast can be found on my blog in the show notes
– I also publish a transcript with every episode in case you’d rather read the show or look at something later on
– You can find all podcast show notes at www. Sellingyourscreenplay.com/podcasts
– Also, if you want my free guide how to sell a screenplay in five weeks you can pick that up by going to sellingyourscreenplay.com/guide; it’s completely free, you just put it in your e-mail address and I’ll send you a new lesson once per week for five weeks along with a bunch of bonus lessons. I teach the whole process of how to sell your screenplay in that guide; how to write a professional Log on and Query letter; how to find agents, managers and producers who are looking for material; it really is everything you need to know to sell your screenplay- Just go to www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/guide
So now let’s get in to the main segment. And today’s interview I’m talking with Joey Tuccio from The Stage 32 Happy Writers. Here is the interview;
Ashley: Welcome Danny to the SYS podcast. I really appreciate you coming on the show.
Joey: Hi Ashley I love I was saying before, I loved your site. It’s so informative and it’s amazing. I think it’s great. You’re the beginning you’re in show is so informative I think it’s great.
Ashley: Thank you, Thank you. So, I wonder to start out I wonder if you could give us a quick overview of your career in entertainment history. How you got to where you are today.
Joey: Yeah, I’ve been in L.A. for 10 Years! Which of kind of insane. I’m 19 right now so,.. So I came out to act. I went to an acting conservatory. And then I started to wanna get more involved of a producing side of it. So I start interning of a lot of different companies reading a tons of scripts and then I got hired in Bolts Films. I did drive.., Its just did ABC’s Block Box. And I work there for little while and that’s why I really got involved in the developing side of it. The.., just really being there from 8am-9pm every single day just getting in with phone calls.., etc etc. and after that I realize I couldn’t sit down longer than five hours at a time let alone a thousand. So I started free lancing for coverage companies.., and I just can found.., do is kinda like disconnects in the writer and the companies that I was freelancing for.., its just kinda of felt like there was a glass case between the writer and the companies don’t answer the happy writers.., which I have for about 3 years right now. I would try to keep this as personal as possible so it was not just a machine burning out scripts. And I really want to take more nurturing stance with the writers. So that’s kinda ; A in a nutshell.
Ashley: Okay, Perfect, perfect. So let’s.., talk a minute about drive. And maybe You can give us some background with that movie. Anything really interesting to a screen writer. You can Kinda maybe give us some behind the scene details.
Joey: Yeah I mean it’s really interesting. Drive is such a unique movie. Some people hated it, and some people love it. I think it’s such a unique story where it’s not.,, I mean it’s definitely thriller but it has so much heart to it and has so much humanity to it.,, and the way they shot it particularly, that has this really long pauses. Remember the scene with Ryan Gausel and Carrie Milogan. There just like looking at each other, and its kinda awkward to watch because you kinda feel, like your literally watching two people falling in love naturally. And it’s just so engaging.., and it was definitely a labor of love.,, Ryan Gausel really took a really big stand as well as producer. And with him driving as store board planning attended, it really started to take off. One thing about Drive always tom really interesting, the Carrie Molagan part is originally written for Latina. So, she read it and change it to, obviously not a Latina but it’s definitely a movie that I think a lot of readers read because it’s more than everything else its simple. It’s a story it never tries to be anything more than it should be. It never views off course. And its really simple core concept.,, and its character driven which I wish, I wish more scripts character driven over plot driven. Because there so many executive looking for the complex intrigue interesting characters like Ryan Gosling was in Drive. I think it’s good, did you like it?
Ashley: Yeah yeah, I did you know it’s one of those I have this. I have not read the script, I have did see the movie, I thought it’s a really good movie. But it’s one of those, it’s very rare, watch a movie and you feel like the script may not have been that great, but the movie was really good because of what you’re talking about, there’s a lot of just silence like that elevator scene is you know it’s just an incredibly cinematic mastery. But I don’t know that that was. I don’t know maybe you’ve read the script so maybe you can tell us do you feel like just from reading the script you got the sense that “wow this really got to be a great film” or; or was it just the director able to do.
Joey: Really, really good question.
Ashley: And it’s very very rare like 99% of the time is the opposite thing is the script is better than the movie and its kinda go with this filtering process. That the script is really good, the movie is okey. The script is great and the movie is good. But I fell this could be a rare situation that the script is okey but the movie is really really good.
Joey: Yeah I mean, when I read the script. Its already pretty much going to production. I don’t necessarily know that “this is script, this is amazing” what I did like it about it a lot it did really stuck with me is just so easy to follow and im not saying that this is boring chargley imagination but the characters were so rich and even if its wasn’t mating so movie characters stick with me. And that’s really makes you great movie it’s the characters and it could have went two different ways: one can really go dated be level movie average or really something that kinda push the envelope a little bit and it was interesting that it kinda did both in terms of have this kinda have of idis kinda field to it. But they really make it such a unique way.., they did blend so many barriers I thought I has a good job.
Ashley: Yea yeah, one the things I read and I think its in the interview with the director and the way he was describing in the process of making the movie was.,, they were doing some re writes of the while they were shooting. And I’m curios did you read the version of the script like months before they’ve started shooting or was there lot of re running or a lot of changes on the fly or on the set. The article I can’t remember what it was. But it they had the writer literally hold up like a man in Hollywood and you know every night after the day shoot. He’s up there you know; writing pages for the next day.
Joey: Yeah.,, to be honest I’m not so sure like how many re writes were there. I know I have read one. And it was like pretty much the way there shooting on. But I know because it was such a unique project, and such a labor of love. There were a few time that they go and make some changes.,, and its kinda like I’ve heard this one before that’s so interesting. It’s a script that’s written, the script that shots and the script that it’s actually made. So I do feel that it did shifts like a little bit but I think it really say true from the beginning vision. And it will never be er too much of course from what they’ve originally I want it from it. They are really passionate from what the vision that they had and they stuck with it and I think every writer should do.
Ashley: Yeah yeah so, let’s talk a little bit now as of your career as a development executive and consultant. I just like to ask this people who have done development and of a lot of scripts. How many scripts would you ask to make you’ve read in your life time.
Joey: In my life time- Wow, that Thousand and thousand and thousand. I mean thousand. It’s really yeah, Thousands
Ashley: So I think established some credibility. I think a lot of people getting into screen writer they may have read a couple, of dozen and they think that’s enough. So I think you know understanding that there’s people out there on this planet that have literally read that thousand that it’s just good to people just to hear it.
So let’s talk about some comment problems. I mean obviously you have read of this thousand script. There some top of the profession and probably even few bottom of the profession. What are some comment problem that you see in screen plays?
Joey: Yeah.,, we broke up for a second could you hear me?
Ashley: Yup yup no, sorry.
Joey: A comment problem, one. There are few, one that I feel like writers. That you can literally see when you get bored they have such an interesting concept at the beginning and its simple and its stream line. And they go kinda round the mid-point I can literally see writers like “oh this is so boring, executives not gonna like this, Oh my God it’s never gonna get nailed” alliens, explosions and now it’s a horror and it was a comedy before and it just shift a course and why is this happening? So if you have a concept just stick with it. Trust it from the beginning to the end. If you want it shift it half way through, make sure its connected don’t try to.. I think writers trust themselves so much. One thing I hear over, over, and over again, is when giving notes is a lot of times think like you know what I kinda knew that I didn’t trust my elf etc. etc. and I think if you could just trust yourself as a writer then you’ll be a.. you’ll go ahead of the game. Because I think so many writer, write what they think other people will like. And it’s time to pls so many people. And as one thing this industry is crazy, if I were the writer I don’t know what to do you’d google like how do I help myself as a writer 2 million things will come up. Its insanity! So I thinks its just trusting yourself as a writer and just really known why you writing this concept will begin then .
The second thing really is Characters. I mean all of the heroes journey I’m sure everybody heard this before. But it really really is, like find the character that you relate to like don’t try to write something that feels too outside your will box, write something that you can relate to as a person as an artist.., and put yourself into that character and really focus on the character’s growth and Journey. And I know people hear it all the time, but I don’t think people do it I think they get a character and they’re so focus on the plot and characters kinda of stuck in it. They’re really making a character driven story no matter what the genre and let the plot.,, let the character really drive the thought forward of the other way around. That’s the two major things that I can say.
Ashley: Okey yeah yeah good advice for sure. So You know right before we start the interview you were talking about some just, some tips of writers and what you saw as a problem, maybe writers not caring themselves quiet as well they maybe they could. Lets talk about that a bit. I mean what do you mean by that they actually improve on it.
Joey: Totally, well like like for you. Like for you for example your so, I’m not just saying like stuck up. like you very personable like youre obviously have credibility, and your personable, like you’ve just very genuine but I think of some writer when they do especially when they pitch they’re so many pitching sessions is like “hey okey my name is joey im gonna pitch you my project act 1: it is the story about this guy going into a bank and then like 3 minutes just reading like a piece of paper and then they go back “okey this is my story and do you like it” and every time they do that the executive like “whoa were that person just kinda came alive after theyre pitch is exactly who we wanted during the pitch.
‘Cuz if You make it sound a boring for lack of a better word. The executives gonna tune out, so I think just really bring yourself to it, most of the writers that ive seen success from us are the ones who’ll go in and are just themselves. It doesn’t mean like perfect it doesn’t mean like that, it means nervous it means excited, it means anxious, it means humid so don’t worry about hiding the right beads, don’t put so much stress in yourself go in and just be a human Promise you will be ahead of the game so that’s kinda yeah.
Ashley: Okey good, So let’s.., talk a bit about your getting in some sort of the services the pitching that you guys do at the happy writers, lets talk a minute about happy writers about the services that you guys offer and we can get dive into those for a minute
Joey: Yeah, so basically I have happy writers for about 2 ½ years and then I met RV and the man from stage 32 of the most gorgeous, loveliest talented people of ever come across so warm and welcoming and then were like we should you know partner up and do stuff together so they basically acquire to the happy writers so now its stage 32 happy writers as I said at the beginning so basically what we have, we have to pitch sessions we have a couple of classes that were teaching now one is how to write a tv pilot and kinda get your staff, another one is really interesting how to write fate face movies because that’s such a merging market and not many writers were familiar with, the other one is how to format the structure your scipt. And I think of the third when a lot of people see that and then I really know how to do that but theres so many nuts and bolts to it that I think a lot of writers kinda over look like cuz they think, is like gonna pass that is always good to get back to the basics.,, always good we have that, we have mentoring sessions when I started the happy writers and about 3 executives working with us and now we have about 300.,, so writers can really choose from a large spectrum of executives that are currently working in our companies. We broke it up to genre screen like horror comedys and make sure to get the right person and the executives are all hand selected by us people that we trust people that really wanna help our writers.,, people that really know what theyre doing
Ashley: And what do you actually get, when you get one of this mentor what do you actually get when they read your material they just go coffee when they want some on what is the actual.,,
Joey: Yeah for the mentoring session, there’s a few different one, the coverage what will they read scripted v notes on it, and theres one getting read the script and notes on it and they get to phone call and another one is just get phone call so its basically the story notes and I mean theres one really special service to I think Is one of my favourites is the mentoring session when you don’t read anything of yours for in a sellery.,, but you just have a hour of the executives and you just pick there brain. And I think that having a mentor in this industry as im sure as you know is really really important. And having somebody that you trust that you could ask asvice.,, really having the one mentor that stick with you throughout your career I think is really really important
Ashely: I wonder if.,, someone didn’t necessarily wanna go to the happy writers service of getting a mentor, would you guys you have any tips for finding a mentor.,, if you just.,, a writer with no money struggling and trying to find some help.
Joey: Totally, I mean I think again keep going back to your intro’s its so great. Living in a laze important, I think it is its great interning up some places and its free you’ll definitely make contacts there.,, and just joining of writer of ours. Her name is Pamela Kay she’s brilliant she’s lovely she had coffee with me the other week or actually another month this point. And she says” I wanna start a writers group” and “that’s such a great Idea” and I picked of a few writers that I really trust that lived in LA and start this writers group.
To start a writer’s group, be proactive, that that’s something.., like it’s so important. Don’t writing is such like a tunnel. Pro- I guess if you and your computer.,, it’s just like so tunnel vision so when you’re done with the script even when your just writing it, writing a script like really step outside. To meet people.,, and just try to find a group that you trust. And within that group find writer that you can trust even more and just start working together and sharing your product and find really inspiring and not too credible
Ashley: Yeah yea, I’m in a writer’s script. And I find it very very its .., lot of great great help.
Joey: It’s so great comes an hours ..;
Ashley: So, yeah I’ve wrote down actually after the interview I actually gonna talk to you and CB and some of your writers on our way, were always looking for new writers.
Joey: Yeah, that would be amazing. Something that we do to is something really fun. We have an executive com for fee and they just talk on rather to pitch them and its again it really finding nurturing people that you can work with and just connecting with them. Its so important
Ashley: Yeah yeah, so let’s talk about the Skype Pitching that you guys do, what is that surface.
Joey: Yeah basically for writers to have filmmakers, directors, writers, producers, some composers but really more on people who had product. And they Skype with these executives that are currently looking for products. When I started this a year and a half
Ashley: And when you say product you’re talking about screen plays..?
Joey: Screen plays are sometimes finished product, finish films. Tell some execution finish funds. When we start it about 2 per/ session a week and now we have 20-25 and its just kind of growing because mostly because the writers they feel really safe in this environment. Again one thing that really makes this different is that is there’s a mediator in the room with them.
So it’s basically usually, myself, the executives and the writers that are pitching us all private one on one, 8 min. each writer has. And we try to keep it as fun and buoyant and professional as possible it’s not a dry process, it’s a nurturing process. The executives are really looking for product and they really wanna help our writers and that’s why we’ve seen many success stories it’s because this executives really trust were putting out there.
So basically feel sign up if get like the time, or you can get your written page. A lot of more writer is doing written page this lately and over Skype sessions I don’t know if this is because of fear or whatever but its fine, some executives prefer the written one. And basically the executives will hear or listen to your pitch your resort pitch rather and left note that they wanna read the script and one thing that makes us really make us stand out is we make follow ups too. So it’s not something like “here’s your script, and it goes into the abyss of never ever, ever lands. Is that we follow up with it and the executives comes back to us and say you know what, the writing was good. But the script isn’t for us. That’s why I set them “whoa do you wana read something else of theirs, do you wanna meet them see what else they have I have a general meeting. I know, executive could be very dismissive so that’s why you need somebody in your corner to tell you “well okey maybe that really not for you, what about this. It’s always putting up good products in front of them. And always getting the writers name in their ear as much as possible.
Ashley: Yeah yeah, so just so I understand the technical how technically this works, its like literally a three-way skype call ward. You’re on, the executive is on and the pitching writer is on?
Joey: It’s actually the executive is sitting right next to me. Either I’m there or they come to get the office. So they’re sitting right next to me. I have coffee and were all caffeinated and ready to go and then we Skype the phone of the writer. And then they have- so I introduce myself and introduce the executive ill try it over and then I do it and then afterwards the executive will give me feedback that they didn’t like the pitch. Or the pitch of the story could be better. And then they try to- I told the writer if they could try to strengthen their pitches as well so its kinda run purpose yeah
Ashley: So are you still reading scripts and, and like doing one on one consultation with writers?
Joey: Like me myself, Joey?
Joey: Not as much.., I kind of- I want the executive to do. When I started this I was doing the lot of reading myself. And I found myself like- especially growing like it was harder to read the script like it was my 2 hours. Where can I find my 2 hours.., or even like an hour but I think it’s really important like the writers no offense to me I guess but it’s like why go to me go to the executives like there, there the people looking at the company let them read your product. And if they if the executive likes the script then I’ll probably read it as well. Okey great so between me and the executive if you want to send it this place the executive wants to meets you do it again- and its really about- and that’s what I’ve found missing- am I rambling btw?
Ashley: No, no keep going, keep going;
Joey: That’s what I’ve loved- that’s kinda I didn’t like about the other services so much with its just felt like okey im gonna send this script to this place and then it’s just one place and I know how hard writers work. Its- it else, I’ve said this so many times I know writer is working hard and it doesn’t mean signing up for service under the sun at all. But if I know writer really want and is working hard I will work as harder and even harder to get they’re script in chronic key you get. I know how hard it is its so, it’s just hardening sometimes but If I feel the writer putting it in the work. Like I will get there script or at least the executives will help them because they know ‘cuz mostly of them are writers too. Everybody’s a writer. So they know, it’s a loving atmosphere.
Ashley: So one question I forgot to ask you when we were talking about script on some how many script you’ve read. Are there some favourites some professional scripts you know maybe they are produced maybe they weren’t. But some really high end script that you can recommend. Maybe 2or 3 scripts that ever screen writer should go out and read.
Joey: Definitely, I think do- I might answer it in a weird way the script that you shouldn’t necessary read or like inception.., the one its better like its sometimes it’s like the brighter side and its intriquit using our house kinda story and then when the executive reason knows won’t be done till I going deception was made but you really have to look like the backstory like the inception was made who directed it who produces it who wrote it. What’s the back stor?. So I think finding Oh God there’s so many good ones bride maids and reading a few variations of it and see how it started and see how it ended it up. Again it’s all about the re writing.
There’s a script that I read recently called the boy next door. It has JELO attached to it. I think is blonde house produce I think it’s already imposed but it think- again it’s a simple story and simple in terms of its stream line woman who has a affair with the 17yr old student. And it like trying to ruined his life it might sound like “oh I heard lik a a quadrillion times and we have but it’s a- but the way it’s done its just character driven that you literally see this characters in it. So that’s what a really good one. I will still stick with the ones that are easier to understand and I don’t know. Read those two.
Ashley: Okey okey. No no those are good ; those are 2 I’ve not read so I definitely check those out so
Joey: And I can’t find a copy of that one I don’t know I’m logically search the world but. I think is on a simply script or so ever or so like
Ashley : Yeah yeah, Perfect perfect so, what’s the best way to people to connect with you follow you on twitter perhaps maybe you can tell us about that information.
Joey: That’s a very good question; I’ve just twitter. I don’t understand I have somebody does it for me so I think there’s like a handle like you said something underscore hash tag like hologram or whatever. I don’t know what mine is. To be honest with you but go to stage32.com and you’ll see you can find me there Joey Tuccio. Email me at joeystage32.com. and if you’re not a member of stage 32 JOIN, that’s a really good way to meet people from all over the world. And so many of this people teaming up and having writers groups in their own towns across the world like it does great to find us writers as possible. And check—
Ashley: And that’s free. Stage 32 is all free Tuccio; I highly recommend to do that.
Joey: Totally; it’s completely free and has nothing to lose. If you have any questions, email me at joeystage32.com and maybe if you search for Joey Tuccio on tweeter it will come up. But I think it will do @happy writers it will definitely show come up.
Ashley: Akey perfect perfect I’ll write that down and I link to all of that in the show and I’ll find out for twitter handler and put that on the show notes as well.
Joey: all the tweeter handlers, I was right?
Ashley: I think so I’m not that big on twitter either but yeah yeah, I think twitter handler think its what they’re calling that
Joey: At least I was close to that
Ashley: Yeah yeah, – you’ve been generous with your time Joe I appreciate you coming on the show.
Joey: Oh thank you so much, and one last thing unto the writers out there. Because there so many different expertise level and I know so many of them are really generally really good, and it’s just put yourself out there, trust yourself and just be really be confident that you have a good product and always be learning. And just be yourselves. So thank you so much your amazing and I really like you.
Ashley: Thank you. No thanks- For coming on once again.., you’ve been really generous thank you
Joey: Well, okay thank you so much and we’ll talk soon.
I got to be running an online class called ‘Writing a great ending to you screen play’. If you have a great ending for your screen play it will be the last thing impression through your reader whether your screen play is solid.
But if you don’t deliver on your ending the readers gonna finish with your lingering doubts about the quality of your screen play. I’m gonna be diving into the third act dissecting the ending from the whole bunch of great movies including the graduate Rocky pope fiction momento planned the apes, Saw shranking, 76 cents, Citizen Cane, Usual suspect and the others so if you having trouble with you endings or simply wanna learn more what it take what it make to write the great ending. Check out of this class. The live class will be Saturday august 23rd at 10 am pacific time
Just go to www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/classes but if you can’t make it to the live class don’t worry it will be recorded and you can listen to them later on in fact all the classes I’ve been done SYS select are recorded and available to SYS select member to watch anytime that like. This class will actually complete the entire screen writing process. I’ve done classes like how to choose a remarkable classes and all the way through the writing of the opening pages of your screen play. The first act the second act and now this class covers the 3rd act again if you join SYS select. You can actually go back and view the recording of all of those classes and your leisure again just go to www.sellingyouscreenplay.com/classes to lean more. Once again I liked to thank screen craft for sponsoring in this episode. They’re currently submission to they’re pilot drama tell- play contest if you ever written a original drama for television this is a great way to get some attention on it. They have a great line up of judges who all have many of experience of television the deadline for entry is September 1st check out screencraft.org if you have a drama tell- play you liked and if you’re listening to this after the September 1st in deadline don’t worry. They run different contest to all the time they will be doing another one. If its next year so, do check out the sites for the latest contest that they’re running again that’s screencraft.org
In the next episode of the SYS podcast I’m going to be interviewing screen writer Bryan Yung. Bryan is a former lawyer from Canada who successfully make the transition of the professional screen writer Rustil berky as a lawyer. He did it all with agent or manager. Even living in Los Angeles he’s really built a great career for himself and he does it and he goes unto some great details on how to go better for him in his next episode so stay tuned for that.
So today’s writing words section I wanna talk about a bit more about the stage 32 happy writers. This is not a service I personally every use I do know of Richard Bada the CEO at stage 32 and he is a great guy. He is a screen writer himself s, you know it just understand how hard can he be and his geniunley passionate about the people succeed he came on the podcast in March its episode 12 so if you wanna know more about stage 32 definitely check out that episode.
To be this virtual pitching that to happy writers offers seems like a great service if you had some good sales chops if you are good at selling over the telephones or at person it seems like a great avenue for you to try. I’ve said it before on the podcast and I will say it again every marking channel is gonna work for every person; I’m honestly why im gotto sure of certain things work for certain people but it’s just seem the way it happen I had great success using my own email and fax pals service but haven’t fair that all well with ink tip over the black list.
Couple of weeks ago I interview Jason Spellman on the podcast and he just off something over ink tip and next week as I’ve mention that interview with Bryan Yung; he’s a very successful writer and 8 tip literally launch his career so I know ink tip can work it just have to work for me in a couple of week I’ll be interviewing up and coming writer named Katlen Rown who has some success with contest she plays very highly in recent blue cat competition and she acted getting a manager as a result of winning that award so the contest can work to they’re working for her and again I’ve never had a luck with contest that doesn’t mean that they don’t work so the point is if you struggle to get your material out lets kinda start throwing things again the wall and see what sticks try my email and fax black survey, try the black list, enter contest and try the stage 32 happy writers service if your script is even half way decent hope fully ill start to see some positive result and one of these marketing channels if you do start pushing hard on that channel. And this is exactly what I’m doing.
As I mention I’m having great success in my email and on fax blast service. The last 18 months have been most successful months of my career and it’s all because of my own email and acts blast service and now I’m going back and polishing up my old scripts and writing new ones that constantly blasting to my list I’m just keeping up the pedal on the four and much attraction as I can so while I’m still working. One quick note I still get a lot of emails asking me to hold a new scripts if you never look me up in IMDP definitely check that out the proof is really putting it in absolve script everything I talked about on this podcast is I personally do and you can see the result of my marketing efforts by looking by in my IMDP page so if you haven’t done that. Definitely check it out ill link to it in the show notes.
Any ways that’s the show; thanks for listening!!