This is a transcript of SYS 472 – From Physical Trainer To Filmmaker With Barry Jay .
Welcome to Episode 472 of the Selling Your Screenplay Podcast. I’m Ashley Scott Meyers, screenwriter and blogger with sellingyourscreenplay.com. Today I am interviewing screenwriter director and fitness expert, Barry Jay. He came to Los Angeles in the 80s to be a songwriter, eventually found fitness founded Barry’s Boot Camp, which is was a big success and has grown to over 90 Fitness locations. But he always loved movies. So now that’s what he’s doing. He’s writing and directing indie feature films. I have him on today to talk about his latest film, a drama thriller called The Way Out. So, stay tuned for that interview.
SYS’s a six-figure screenplay contest is open for submissions, just go to www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/contest. Our early bird deadline is March 31. So, if your script is ready, definitely submit now to save some money. We’re looking for low-budget shorts and features. I’m defining low-budget as less than six figures. In other words, less than 1 million US dollars. We’ve got lots of industry judges reading the scripts in the later rounds, we’re giving away 1000s in cash and prizes. We’ve had a number of options and sales from the contest, and this is only our fourth year. So, we’re getting a nice little bit of traction with the scripts. There’s always lots of producers looking for high quality low budget films. We have a short film script category as well 30 pages or less so you have a low budget short script, by all means submit that as well. I do have a large number of these industry judges, producers who are looking for short scripts and have requested to read some of those, so hopefully we can find a home for some of the short scripts as well. If you want to submit or learn more about the contest and you can see all the industry judges you can click over to their IMDb pages. And just learn more about the contest in general or enter you can go to sellingyourscreenplay.com/contest. Again, that’s sellingyourscreenplay.com/contest.
If you find this episode valuable, please help me out by giving me a review in iTunes or leaving a comment on YouTube or retweeting the podcast on Twitter or liking or sharing it on Facebook. These social media shares really do help spread word about the podcast so they’re very much appreciated. Any websites or links that I mentioned the podcast can be found on my blog in the show notes. I also publish a transcript with every episode case you’d rather read the show or look at something later on. You can find all the podcast show notes at www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/podcast and then just look for episode number 472. If you want my free guide How to Sell a screenplay in five weeks, you can pick that up by going to sellingyourscreenplay.com/guide. It’s completely free. Just put in your email address and I’ll send you a new lesson once per week for five weeks along with a bunch of bonus lessons. I teach the whole process of how to sell your screenplay in that guide, teach you how to write a professional logline inquiry letter and how to find agents, managers and producers who are looking for material really is everything you need to know to sell your screenplay, just go to sellingyourscreenplay.com/guide. So, now let’s get into the main segment. Today, I’m interviewing writer director Barry Jay. Here is the interview.
Ashley
Welcome Barry to the Selling Your Screenplay Podcast. I really appreciate you coming on the show with me today.
Barry Jay
Thanks for having me.
Ashley
So, to start out, maybe you can tell us a little bit about your background, where you grew up and how did you get interested in the entertainment business?
Barry Jay
I grew up in Rockland County, New York in a small town called Muncie. It was commuters Ville, it was about half hour, 40 minutes from the city. A lot of people, you know, started they’ve had their families in Rockland and then went to work in the city like my dad, did. You go back and forth every day cursing. And if you’ve ever done the drive from Rockland to the Bronx in the early morning, rush hour, you know what he’s cursing for.
Ashley
Yeah.
Barry Jay
So, you know, I had an affinity for horror movies, I cannot explain it. They just drew me in from the first one I saw. And I wanted to see more and more and more and more. I started collecting the Famous Monsters film and magazine and all of those and I started, you know, I’m a little older. So, you had to if you wanted to see a movie, you couldn’t stream it or you couldn’t record it. I had to stay up and say oh, Frankenstein’s on at two in the morning, I’m going to set my alarm. Oh, you have to really want it. So that’s how it started. And then my mother loved musicals. So, I got into theater. So there was a whole thing started to happen between me and theatrics and loving horror, and no one wanted to get out of that house at some point and in September 1983 I moved to Los Angeles to be a writer, because I had taught myself piano and I had found great joy in writing songs. So, then when I got out here, I also met writers who also wrote songs that wanted to write screenplays. And of course, I thought it would be fun to write a horror one. So that’s where the sort of the birth of it was, and the screenwriting didn’t really take off until I got sober. And you know, when berries are taken off, I was teaching in the morning, and then I had the whole day to myself. And that’s a lot of time. And thought, well, I could write songs again. And he did. And I went to Nashville, I co-wrote, and I co-wrote with some great people there. And but then, you know, if you don’t live in Nashville, you’re not going to make a Nashville, end of the story. And you got to be there to get the prize. And they were also very costly. So, I thought, you know, the demos, you know, they’re not cheap. And I thought to myself, well, I could write scripts and keep myself entertained by writing still. Because, you know, I’m a writer, I love to write, whether it’s songs or scripts. So, I kind of made the move. And then what happened was, since this is about selling a script, I started writing, my first script was horrible. Let’s just say it was horrible. I don’t know where it is. I wouldn’t want anyone to read it except for a laugh. But I kept writing and I wrote 21 screenplays in a row, just to get better. 18 of them were garbage. But the last few, there was one at Boot Camp, that berries, there was a friend. And he was in the biz. And he’s the director of commercials. And he wanted to direct a film. And I said, would you read some of my scripts and just tell me if I’m onto something here or if I’m dreaming, because I feel like I’m starting to get better at it. And he read like two or three of them. And he’s like; No, I think you’ve actually getting a handle on this. He goes, maybe we should write something together. And then his friend Joe Dane was starting terror films. And he was doing a slate of three movies. And we want you to be one of those. So, we wrote this thing called The Chosen thing had different titles in the beginning, and we had to rename it because it was like bloodline or something, that Netflix came out with a series called Bloodline. So, we renamed it The Chosen. And Joe said, if you can scale this thing down, meaning sets and locations, all that kind of stuff, for an ultra-low budget, then we can make this one of the slate. So, we did you know, and we scaled it down and kept the story intact. And then directed it. And I was on set every single day. And then that was it. I was Terror films, And Joe hired me to write the wraparound for Patient Seven. Based on my performance and my writing for The Chosen and I’m sat every day not just watching, I was working. I was writing fly rewriting scenes that didn’t seem to be working for Ben, you know, so, you know, because you’re right on the page, you want to see it on his feet can be very different. So, you got to be able to like, really think fast and fix something if you know what needs fixing. So, I got me the job Patient Seven. But then after that, I decided to invest in myself like George Romero and do a film called Ashes.
Ashley
Okay, so let’s just and then we’ll sort of jump off from that. I’m really just curious, when you’re when this email came from the publicist across my desk, I’m just always curious to talk to people, especially someone yourself that’s outside of the entertainment history and comes in, you’ve had success in the fitness industry with Barry’s Bootcamp. And I’m just curious, like now that you’ve been in the entertainment business for a while, what is your perspective on just the business aspects of indie film? You know, as a business, man, just how do you view this whole world of indie film?
Barry Jay
I love it. I love indie filmmaking, I feel like you have a lot more creative control on set. And with the final product, because you’re literally creating with the team that’s right there with you. You know, there’s no one over overhead who’s not unsets watching a cot and saying this, not that they can’t have great ideas. I’m sure they do. But there is just something I like about just in the field, like, this is what we want. And this is what we’re making. And you know, no one interferes with that. You know, business wise, there used to be a day where streaming was really plentiful for indie filmmakers, you know, but now, especially since COVID, as you know, there’s so much content, that as a business man, I’m like, wow, you know, you really need some prominent platforms to get seen here, word of mouth needs to be super good for people to click on it.
Ashley
And I’m just curious, as an indie filmmaker myself, and exactly what you’re saying. I enjoy that creative process. I enjoy the indie film where you don’t have a team of executives above you telling you what to do. And even frankly, some of the indie films I’ve worked on have had that oversight where the investors want to have some say in the creative process and stuff. So, it is something liberating about doing this. But I always in the back of my mind, there’s always a part of it that feels like okay, is this the most sound business, you know, business model to just lean into the creative and let one person be the writer, director, just the ultimate creative force of this, is there some just business, your chances of recouping your investment is get a little bit better with some more business savvy people on the team?
Barry Jay
Yes, that’s a really good point, I think, indeed is the way to go. If you hit big with indie, like paranormal or whatnot. Great, great, amazing. You can do it all you want. But if you’re making indie films that aren’t turning profits, and profits that aren’t that great. At some point, I had to say to myself, it’s film school. And it’s examples of my work. And I’m not sure yet, if universal through $5 million of aid said make a horror movie. Absolutely. I would say yes. I wouldn’t be thinking about the executives who have a say in it. I’d be like, I want to do that. Yeah, I like doing my indie films. All the better. Because at least like work that I’ve done on my own, so maybe they’ll continue to like it on my own.
Ashley
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, let’s dig into your latest feature film The Way Out. Maybe to start out you can just give us a quick pitch or logline, what is this film all about?
Barry Jay
This film is about a shutdown struggling addict who wants to who is an aspiring songwriter with no self-esteem, who inherits the family home and takes in a roommate to keep it. And the roommate is a fighter, a fighter who believes in standing up for himself, fighting back, and especially against abusers. Like you shouldn’t have to lay down and take it. And he takes this guy under his wing to teach him how to fight.
Ashley
And what was the genesis for this story? What sowed the seed?
Barry Jay
Oh, I mean, Alex, was based on my life experience. Childhood Trauma, sobriety, struggles with sobriety, wanting to be a songwriter, writing, they weren’t that great, not being able to put a life together being shut down, it’s the best way I can say it, I was just shut down. intimacy issues and social issues of a socially awkward, and I just didn’t know how to act, everybody scared me. But I had to write and I had no reason to believe that would be scary.
Ashley
And how do you take such a personal story? Obviously, it’s a hard, dark story a part of your life? And how do you turn it into something that’s entertaining for people to watch or at least cathartic for people to watch? But how do you take this personal story and then exaggerate, change it, modify it to actually turn it into something that you know, can inspire and people and can watch and enjoy?
Barry Jay
Good question. Well, you know, as a writer, I realized that I’m making a movie out of this and I’m making a horror movie. So, I leaned heavily into the dramatic aspect, but I also thought to myself, Shane is the escapism, Shane is our fun Fight Club guy who takes us on a horrific journey. And he is an example of how it can go bad. Alex is shut down and Shane is angry and violent and he believes revenge is the best. He believes eye for an eye, almost really he just not exactly eye for an eye but he believes that the evil deserves evil. The balance was basically between Shane bringing us into the world of horror and Alex bringing us into the world of recovery.
Ashley
Gotcha, gotcha. So, let’s talk about your writing process a little bit. Where do you typically write and when do you typically write looks like you have a nice home office here but do you need to go out into Starbucks and have that ambient noise where your laptop or do you just write here, do you write in the middle of the night, are you an early to rise person? Just what is your writing schedule look like?
Barry Jay
I am a night owl and a loner. If I went to Starbucks, I would do nothing but order too many lattes and watch myself. I wouldn’t get anything done. It’s A) a day time and B) there’s people. And so, I do tend to write at night nine o’clock on. I’ve written some scripts at midnight and two in the morning. I’ve wrote in the pitch black with the only thing I’ve done is my screen assignments little world. Sometimes I’ll put a horror movie on in the background with the sound off. Sometimes I’ll put on like the score to the conjuring in the background of my laptop, really, just to keep up a feel. Sometimes I’ll light a candle. But usually, it’s just black and darkness in me. And that’s, you know, I’m a loner by nature. Even though I’m married with four dogs, I just do well, very alone. I think that’s what I loved writing anyway, was you can do so much of it alone.
Ashley
Yeah, yeah. And just take us through your process of coming up with this story, how much time do you spend like an outlining stages, with index cards, notebook? And then how much time do you spend actually opening Final Draft cranking out script pages? What does that balance look like for you?
Barry Jay
First, the idea comes in the outline, you know. The first thing I think about is the characters in the title and even the poster. Like, what would the poster for this thing look like? Because what’s everyone’s going to see before they get in there, they’re going to see the poster and the trailer, you know. So, I put it together in my head, are usually no beginning, middle and end. But once I delve into the characters, once I started really defining who is Alex and who is Shane, and who is Gracie and Veronica, they start speaking, I start hearing voices, I start seeing people who I can imagine playing them. And it starts, it’s once the outline is done, I do not do index cards, and you’re not storyboard I do a beat sheet. I have done a beat sheet. But if I have a thorough outline, then I won’t need a beat sheet if the outlines thorough enough, and in this case, the outline was thorough enough.
Ashley
And then what? I’m sorry, go ahead.
Barry Jay
So, then I opened up final draft, and my favorite two words fade in. And then I just go and go and go, it could be a one hour a day write, it could be a four hours a day, it could be two in the morning, when I suddenly wake up with an idea. I just go to it. And when it’s finally done, in comes the coverage people and producers and this and everybody has their notes, and then I go back and rewrite and rewrite and rewrite, I must have rewritten The Way Out 12 times.
Ashley
And let’s talk about that development process. So, you mentioned you have some script development people, producers, managers, or whomever, maybe you can talk about that, how did you meet these people? Is there other ways maybe some of our listeners could find a similar support structure? And then how do you interpret those notes? Suppose someone gives you a note you don’t agree with? Like, how do you sort of work that into your development process, but just start out with some of the logistics how did you find these people? And who are these people?
Barry Jay
Well, I met at Berry’s, I met Carl Rumba. And Carl brought me to Mike and Nick, Nick Theurer, and Mike Manning, who plays Shane. And Nick’s actually also in the movie, too, with a smaller role. And then Nick brought me to Archie CheMin Cooper, who became one of the producers. So, through Berry’s through Carl, I found Mike and Nick, who brought me to Artesia. So, that’s how that happened. But, Mike, in the very beginning, Mike has been my drill instructor. Mike knows his coverage person who does like 19 pages of notes, who does it for all the big agencies, absolutely love the script. But he still had 19 pages of notes. The first thing he says on the on the notes is if you don’t like any of these notes, don’t use them. So, it’s pretty open. And I actually liked a lot of them. But there were things along the way that I had to become okay with not that I settled in that way. I mean, become. I have to see their point of view. I did rebuttal at first. I was like no, no, no, that’s not why this happens. This happens because of this, this, this and this. I love it. You know, Gracie had two different outcomes, one I wanted and one they wanted. And I’m telling you everyone was really like they were like picket signs for their outcome with Gracie. And Mike said something one day and I’m not going to give it away. But one thing he said made in a way both ideas work. And I said, okay, no, no, I am on board. I want you to sign it down. I’m here.
Ashley
I’m curious, you mentioned once you had the structure in place, and you start working on sort of the characters, and really fleshing it out. But what is your approach to screenplay structure, there’s the sort of the three act Syd field, you know, very delineated act breaks, and then there’s more of like an intuitive approach, that’s maybe not quite so formulaic. But where do you fall in this? How do you go about structuring your screenplay?
Barry Jay
Ah, I love structure but I also realize it’s a rubber band, you know, it’s solid concrete, there are No rules. You know, I mean, you can do what you want. But you got to make sure people are into it. I mean, this, if you can get them fast the first 10 or 15 pages, you’re probably doing okay. So, start strong, it’s okay to be intuitive. It’s okay to tell the story as you know, the story as you feel the story. Sometimes it’s a true story. And you know, it doesn’t follow this structure. So, yeah, I mean, I love structure. And I learned by structure, and I do think it’s important to learn the structure and know it. So, you’re able to toy with it from there.
Ashley
And what’s your approach to genre requirements? You’ve been talking about how many horror movies you’ve watched. You certainly have a great, you know, knowledge of the of the space. But what is your approach to the genre? Bringing in some films, you’re the same but different? Just how do you approach create? It’s well-worn territory, how do you give it an original spin?
Barry Jay
I think, at least for me, what I try to bring is characters that have depth, usually coming from a place of trauma. So, the horror isn’t just horror, you know, and it’s explained. And it’s almost understood where it’s coming from. At least that’s what I hope for. You know, killer therapy started out with a kid who has been in therapy his entire life, until one day he decides he snaps and decides to hunt down all the therapists he blames for messing up his life. So, you know, it’s a serial killer film. But it’s got sort of like Dexter got it a little different motivation. He’s not just going to kill everybody. He’s just going to the people who screwed his life up. So, I hope to create some depth and some uniqueness that way. You know, I always start with the character, if I can really tell you who the character is in depth that come to life on page.
Ashley
Yeah, yeah. So okay, so once you had a script that you were happy with, it sounds like you got some coverage, you rewrote it 12 times. What were those next steps to taking that script and actually getting it into production? I noticed you mentioned Mike Manning, a second ago, I notice he had an executive producer credit. Sherri Shepherd has an executive producer credit as well. And so maybe you can talk about that. Like how did you actually take it from script to getting greenlit and getting it produced?
Barry Jay
I gave it to Carl to read. And he loved it. And even in the shape I gave it to him. I’d probably give it to him in a six or seven, three right behind you. And then he gives Nick and Mike and they were going to come on as the producers. But when I asked Mike if he wanted to be Shane, he said, I do. But if I’m going to be Shane, I’ve got to take a step back from producing, I got to put on 13 pounds of muscle. I got to learn how to box. I’ve got to delve into this character with you. And I was like, yes, please. It’s amazing. So, he became an EP. But like I said he was the one person. I mean, the moment it started on it, I don’t forget, he says, so now we are brothers in arms. And from that moment on, this was our baby. You know, yeah, I wrote it and directed it. But I really grateful for the guidance I had from, you know, it wouldn’t be a better writer for it. And it wouldn’t be the movie it is without him.
Ashley
Yeah, yeah. So, I just like to wrap up these interviews by asking the guest if there’s anything you’ve seen recently, that you think is really great. Hulu, Netflix, HBO or there’s there anything out that you’re currently watching that you could recommend to our mostly screenwriter audience?
Barry Jay
So, although it did not love Wednesday, I will say that the actor who played Wednesday is phenomenal and worth watching. She absolutely brings it. She does. Yeah, she does. Not fun in anything. She’s amazing. You know, I’m mostly a cinephile. And I find films that are not always current. I mean, I watch The Goldbergs and young Sheldon, as far as TV goes, but that’s kind of… I have just started watching Family Guy as something to have breakfast to I’ve never seen it before.
Ashley
Yeah, I think me and you are the only ones that have not seen it. Yeah, I’m totally with you on that.
Barry Jay
COVID made me open up this, I watched Miss Hazel. I watched 30 Rock in COVID. I would have never known Sherri Shepherd if not for 30 rock in COVID because that’s where maybe no, she could do drama. But I would say I just recently watched Elijah Wood and maniac, and it’s a remake. And it’s not new, or that thing is shot so beautifully. Caution, absolutely graphic. You got to have stomach.
Ashley
That’s a giola film is it’s like a modern day giola horror film.
Barry Jay
I mean, he is just a maniac. But they are not shy with the gore. But it’s not about the gore. It is beautifully shot. And he is phenomenal in it. And I just recently watched it and I’ve watched it three times… my next film and I love gleaning from great directors.
Ashley
Yeah, that’s a great recommendation. Great for people. Some a little under the radar. How can people see The Way Out? Do you know what the release schedule is going to be like your film?
Barry Jay
February 10, Terra films is not told me exactly which platforms. They said that it is soon to come. But it will be on all the major platforms.
Ashley
Perfect, perfect. And what’s the best way for people to keep up with your writing and directing career, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, anything you’re comfortable sharing, I will round up and put in the show notes so people can just click over and follow you.
Barry Jay
I’m on Instagram. And that’s my only social media, really, I mean, The Way Out has its own social media on Twitter and on Instagram. Me personally, I’m at Barryscares on Instagram. But caution ahead. I mostly post Quotes of The Day, survivor lessons. Once in a while when something comes out like the trailer. I’ll post that for sure. But then I’ll go right back.
Ashley
Yeah, yeah, yeah, gotcha. Gotcha. So what Barry, I really appreciate you coming on talking with me today. Good luck with this film and good luck with your future films as well.
Barry Jay
You’re awesome. Thank you, Ashley.
Ashley
Thank you. We’ll talk to you later.
SYS from concept to completion, screenwriting course is now available, just go to www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/screenwritingcourse. It will take you through every part of writing a screenplay, coming up with a concept, outlining, writing the opening pages the first act, second act, third act and then rewriting and then there’s even a module at the end on marketing your screenplay once it’s polished and ready to be sent out. We’re offering this course in two different versions, the first version, you get the course. Plus, you get three analyses from an SYS reader, you’ll get one analysis on your outline, and then you’ll get to analyses on your first draft of your screenplay. This is just our introductory price, you’re getting three full analyses, which is actually the same price as our three-pack analysis bundle. So, you’re essentially getting the course for free when you buy the three analyses that come with it. And to be clear, you’re getting our full analysis with this package. The other version doesn’t have the analysis. So, you’ll have to find some friends or colleagues who will do the feedback portion of the course with you. I’m letting SYS select members do this version of the course for free. So, if you’re a member of SYS select you already have access to it. You also might consider that as an option. If you join SYS select, you will get the course as part of that membership to a big piece of this course is accountability. Once you start the course, you’ll get an email every Sunday with that week’s assignment. And if you don’t complete it, we’ll follow up with another reminder the next week, it’s easy to pause the course if you need to take some time off. But as long as you’re enrolled, you’ll continue to get reminders for each section until it’s completed. The objective of the course is to get you through it in six months so that you have a completed power screenplay ready to be sent out. So, if you have an idea for a screenplay, and you’re having a hard time getting it done, this course might be exactly what you need. If this sounds like something you’d like to learn more about, just go to www.sellingyourscreenplay.com/screenwritingcourse. It’s all one word, all lowercase. I will of course the link to the course in the show notes and I will put a link to the course on the homepage up in the right-hand sidebar. And the next episode of the podcast, I’m going to be interviewing producer and screenwriter Greg Lyon. He is an independent producer living in the San Francisco Bay Area. He comes on to talk about his projects and offers up some great insight into the writing and producing process. He has worked as a writer and he has worked as a producer on a good number of projects. So, he comes at it from a very practical standpoint, give some great advice on making the most out of your screenplay just from a producer standpoint. He’s also one of our industry judges for this year’s SYS six figure screenplay contest. So, keep an eye out for that episode next week. That’s our show. Thank you for listening,